KORE Outdoors Podcast

[00:00:00] Christian: I think a good place to start is what is your earliest memory of your co-founder
[00:00:04] Tina: Yeah. Yeah. I actually have a really good story about this, and I was trying to think, there's, there's definitely memories earlier, like, actually I'll say this. The very first memory of her, she came. So we went to high school together and we were a few grades apart. And I remember she came to high school, it was like her first year, and she's like, she's so gorgeous.
Like if you see her in person, she like, really is this most beautiful, like, staggering face? And um, she, everyone was like, oh my gosh, who is this girl? She's such a mystery. She's so beautiful. Like, you know, in high school everyone's like excited about a new girl coming to school. So that's my like, earliest memory. But like a proper story for you is, um, we ended up having, we worked at our first jobs together and I actually had just, I graduated a few months before her 'cause we were different grades, right. And so I actually had converted into a [00:01:00] full-time role on the, um, Victoria's Secret sport merchandising team. And Maddie was just finishing up school, so she was technically still interning, but she was, she's like. So incredible. She was working a full-time schedule and in school she was like, basically this like undercover, full-time assistant merchant. It was wild. Anyways, and this, I don't have like all the specifics of this memory, but all I remember this feeling.
I remember like looking at her, everyone was prepping for, I think it was buyer review. And the other assistant merchants from the other categories were like running around stress, sweating, freaking out, like unorganized chaos. And Maddie was calm, cool, and collected. All her shit was together. She was like, essentially like mentally running laps around her peers and she wasn't even outta school yet.
And I, I just, that, that's my memory of her. It, it like shocked me 'cause it's very rare you come [00:02:00] across people who, one are so poised. I like love working with her 'cause she's like totally like the calm to my storm. um, also, it's not every day you come across someone who's like, so intelligent and like just a fucking workhorse. just like blew my mind. So that's my earliest memory of her, which is so funny. And that led to, this is like later, a few weeks later, but that's like when I started to be like, oh shit. Like this girl is no joke. Like, she's on another level. Like I wanna keep like learning from her, watching her a few months or a few weeks later, I remember we didn't know each other like super well.
We were like. Acquaintances in high school but not, didn't cross over friend groups by any means. So we didn't get close until this first job we had at Vs. , There was a moment where she, again, it was a similar situation. She was like totally took like chaos through this calm filter and like just was brilliant and strategic.
And I remember looking at her saying, this is [00:03:00] crazy, but I feel like I'm gonna work for you someday. And I, it was weird. Like I'm one of those people who just like, I have thoughts and I say them and it's like I regret them most times, but I don't usually think before I speak. And that was one that was just such this weird gut feeling.
I like had to get it out and tell her even if it came off weird. And she's like, who even are you? What are you talking about? But I, it was almost like a mini like manifestation moment. 'cause I was like, I have to say this 'cause there's like something energy here that I like need to put into the world. So it's funny.
[00:03:34] Christian: So have you officially worked for her?
[00:03:38] Tina: I feel I, that's how I like to think of it. I'm like, I, I love to think about it like that, which is funny. Like partnership dynamics we'll get into, but no, officially no, we're, we're partners. , And we always have been, which has been really cool about our experience and we've worked in multiple companies together.
So no, we, we've always been peers so far, but mentally, I do like to think about, I like to think about, I, like I work for all [00:04:00] of the employees in a company that I'm working at.
[00:04:04] Christian: There you go.
[00:04:04] Tina: like the right place to mentally be.
[00:04:07] Christian: Help me set the timeline between that working together, Victoria's Secret Post University to starting seeing it together. Like how many years was that in between I.
[00:04:17] Tina: Yeah. So I, I always round it to 10, which I don't think is like actually accurate, but I think it's eight. So we, I graduated 2016, started a role right outta school and then, yeah, we launched Scenic. 2024 this time last year.
And started working on it a year prior to that. So really, mean, seven years
[00:04:42] Christian: Okay,
[00:04:42] Tina: the beginning of the development cycle and then like eight years since full curtains at launch from like school to launch of the brand.
[00:04:49] Christian: so one of you followed the other F to backcountry, so you, you moved west.
[00:04:54] Tina: yeah, yeah, yeah. Moved west. So after Victoria's Secret, I spent some time working for Outdoor Voices, which [00:05:00] was like my intro. I, I like brought my active wear experience from Victoria's Secret Sport to outdoor voices. 'cause we were like, had a huge portion of the market share of Vs. Which, like, you wouldn't really think about Victoria's Secret Sport being a hu a large owner of the active market share in the like nineties, early twenties, two thousands.
, They were, and they were innovators and it was actually, was an incredible brand. , And they're getting their way. They're finding their way again, which is really cool to watch from afar. But. I wanted to try my, I like, I love learning from these like billion dollar industry leaders and I wanted to try my hand at a smaller brand.
So went to Outdoor Voices and really, had the opportunity to fall in love with the outdoor specific active category there. I would say my experience prior was really focused on like train and gym and studio and bar. , But yeah, just fell in love with the outdoors and there was so much opportunity and once I knew I was like, in that world, I was like, okay, I wanna go learn from the best of the best in that category.
So, jumped to backcountry after outdoor voices and [00:06:00] I got there and it was cool. It was a cool time. They had just hired a whole new staff and they'd come from many different backgrounds. Not just outdoor backgrounds, but some fashion backgrounds, some technical backgrounds. And, um, yeah, I, I got. And moved to Utah.
It was my first time leaving Ohio and actually not leaving, but living somewhere other than Ohio and got to experience the mountains firsthand. And Maddie at the time was working in the, the jewelry industry. She had kind of made her way there after Victoria's Secret, and she really wanted to get back into apparel, active wear.
And there was a roll open on the women's buying team at Backcountry. And I was like, you are made for this. Like, we're figuring out how the hell to get you in here. And of course she like totally blew them away. First interview and got the job. So it was not much effort, but , yeah, begged her to come to Utah. She did it with quite little resistance. It was, it was felt very meant to be. And then that was really where her and I got the opportunity to live in the mountains and experience the [00:07:00] outdoors as like a, a part of our everyday life, not just as a trip or something to do a few times a year and. just learned so quickly, so much of the opportunity for women in terms of product.
And then we also noticed this like crazy culture shift of how women were using the outdoors. So I can keep going on that or can stop there to let you continue
[00:07:22] Christian: No, I'm, I'm, I'm interested if there was ever these conversations, I mean, obviously your friends and professionals together and peers, were there ever a con, was there ever a conversation that led. That was just like hints or, you know, forecast of like, oh, we should do a brand together. That'd be cool. Did you kick it around or is like, would, did one of you think I should do this?
Have you thought about doing this or did it come out like, I wanna do it. Here it is, it's scenic. Let's go.
[00:07:47] Tina: yeah. So I would say the first like evolution of that conversation was the moment of like, oh shit, I think I'm gonna work for you someday. Like, like that was like [00:08:00] the beginning of that thought. And
[00:08:01] Christian: Okay.
[00:08:02] Tina: . She, yeah, I totally became enamored by her work style and then we became fast friends. So I just like idolize her still to this day in a work environment for sure, as well as outside, but especially in a work environment.
And, , we always, like, we kind of became work wives, like knew we were like, just got each other and if there was something to happen someday it would be, we'd love to do it together. But it wasn't until we moved to Utah that we were like, we would talk about so many different categories. We were like, shit, like we can't find a hike pant.
Like what if we started like a hike pant brand or like, we talk about base layers, like Bruno layers all the time. We're like, why do they all look the same? Why do they all have the same gummy, crappy fabric? Like, what if we started that and here's all these print? So those conversations started to get more literal in Utah because I think we found this like intersection of opportunity and passion, purpose.
Like we loved the culture, we loved the activity. And we saw the opportunity. So it just was [00:09:00] natural in that way. And then it wasn't really until I quit my job, , I decided to take like step back from backcountry. I was super burnt out and I had just gone through my first over ACL repair surgery and my mental health was like totally shot.
I had to, basically sit out from snowboarding for one of the winter, one of the snowiest winters in Utah's history. And I was forced to just like sit with myself in my thoughts. And it's the first time in my life I've ever stopped for like three months and not been able to literally walk, like physically stopped I just completely reassessed my entire life as you do when you sit. And if you haven't tried it, I, I recommend it. , It was like out of that experience and having a broken mental health, rehabbing it through the outdoors, and then finding strength again, and like, kind of reestablishing my goals and vision for life. I, we were at, Maddie and I were , we were at lunch one day. [00:10:00] There's a beautiful deli in Salt Lake called Feldman's. I don't know if you've ever been,
[00:10:05] Christian: I haven't been to Feldman's.
[00:10:06] Tina: oh my God, it's so good. You have to go. But anyways, we were at lunch and I was , just starting to crawl outta my deep, dark mental hole. And I was like, threw it out to her.
I was like, what if we, what if we do this? What if we a business, give it a try, like life's about to get serious in the next decade, like now might like, tried to sell her on it and she didn't need any selling at all. She was like totally in. And I went, ho We went home after that lunch, we were like buzzing. We were like, okay, we're gonna do something. We don't know what it is really. And put, I literally went right home, put a bunch of product I, not a bunch, six product ideas down on paper, which we ended up developing four of them. And then that was the launch collection. , But her that product brief and she responded immediately and was like, clear your calendar.
Sunday, we're writing a business plan. And we're like hitting, go on this. And I was like, [00:11:00] wait, what?
[00:11:02] Christian: It was just a lunch.
[00:11:04] Tina: yeah, it was just a lunch. But no, it was so much more, it was like, it was an evolution of a relationship with each other and trust and . Also living and experiencing the opportunity firsthand together.
It was just all happening live time that it, it took many years to evolve to this. It was definitely not like a wake up one morning and have this bright idea , I don't even think we would've had this passion if we didn't start a Victoria's Secret, because that was such a founder led brand.
We learned how the fundamentals of merchandising and how a founder can lead a brand and how inspiring that can be and innovate, all the little pieces of the story totally added up to that result. And I think if any of them were missing, we probably wouldn't be here. So
[00:11:44] Christian: Was there a draw more? I love it. This is great. This is what we're here for. Um, was it a draw? I mean, this could be different for both of you. I'm just curious. Was it a draw to the, I. Lack of seeing the product that you wanted to see in the market, like, oh, why [00:12:00] can't I find trail pants? What's with these?
Was it a draw to like fix, kind of scratch your own itch from a product side? Or was it a challenge to , do the whole thing, launch a brand, get the visuals? Was, was there one that was calling more than the other or was it, yeah. What did that look like?
[00:12:16] Tina: Yeah, it's a great question. I think I will speak for myself, but , and I think she's similar too. When we do something, we're like jumping in cannonball into the pool of it, and think there would never be a world where I would probably just develop one singular item. I think my, because of our at Victoria's Secret, we are, we were literally trained to think about an entire consumer's lifecycle and their experience with product and their needs and how they shop and how they outfit and merchandise. , So I think The, the excitement for us to start the brand was really, we were trying [00:13:00] to do two things by starting. One was yes, filling this product need, there was way more of a need outside of, than just one item or one category. Like the need is cross category. And the other thing that we wanted to capture by starting the brand was really building a brand for this new woman who is getting in the outdoors.
She's very different than the OG outdoor woman from seventies, eighties, nineties. , A lot of these women had just gotten outside for the first time and partaken in these activities through COVID. So they haven't been in the outdoors long. They're typically not super experts, but they're hungry and they learn and. Grow very quickly in their physical expertise of skills. And, , there wasn't a brand that we were super excited by their brand, mission, vision, and product. There wasn't that like marriage of the two. We were stoked by some brands, branding and socials [00:14:00] and visuals and marketing, and we were stoked, but we like didn't love their product or we were stoked by other brands, innovation, and they were creating things we could never dream of.
But the branding fell flat for us and didn't connect. So we wanted to sort of build both of those worlds and create a new community for girls who felt like we did. And we had no idea if there were other girls out there who felt like us. We had a group of girlfriends in Utah that we knew felt this way, of that we didn't do a terrible amount of. grouping, like customer demographic, target fit like we kind of just built we craved and thank God there's someone out there who feels the same way.
[00:14:46] Christian: Yeah, see, see previous comment about Cannonball, I guess no market, no market validation. We're just jumping in.
[00:14:52] Tina: No, yeah. It's life's too short sometimes I think, I don't know, and that's based on my personal experiences in
[00:14:58] Christian: I'm sure. [00:15:00] Yeah, I'm sure you also pulled up some really good stuff from backcountry too, like your experience at backcountry, both your experiences at Backcountry to let you know like, this is what the market is doing currently and this is, you know, you're seeing things that, that's also helpful there. So there is a little bit of market validation in that.
But yeah, I guess not for your specific branding, your specific product offering. Um, you recently, you, you wrote a blog, you have a blog post that I think is, um, interesting and I'd like to try to pull it in. And the idea behind your blog post is, I think it's called Conventional Advice Worth Ignoring. And I, I think that's interesting.
The idea behind it, I'm not, I'm, I'm gonna try to put words in your mouth here for a second, but the idea behind it is that, , you get a lot of well-intentioned bad advice when you are early, early days of a founder and, you know, strangely enough, even decades into it, people still feel obligated to give you well-intentioned advice.
, So you're, the four things you talk about in this, , and I, I kinda wanna pull through each, each one of those throughout this conversation if we can. , And so you, I'll just go through the fir the four [00:16:00] pieces of advice that you, you've decided to ignore some of it for now. Uh, one of 'em was niche down in your products.
Find, find investors to scale fast, work smarter, not harder, and don't mix personal and professional. So I thought we would start with the last one. Don't mix. Personal professional. So you, you've mentioned that you're, you know, you've, you've gone into business, uh, co-founders with a close friend and peer.
So what is that founder relationship like? Like what are the dynamics? How do you run kind of the day to day is, is it she has a section of the business and you have a section of the business? How are decisions made? Is there kind of shared overlap? Like how does that structure work?
[00:16:37] Tina: Yeah. And before I jump into how we organized it, I think in the blog, there's an important caveat to
[00:16:46] Christian: Okay.
[00:16:47] Tina: this advice, I think, , you are totally free to ignore this advice as long as you have been in high stakes situations with the person you're about to go into business [00:17:00] with. Maddie and I have worked together in many different companies through various leadership styles.
We've been in a trenches together, and so we have already. Proven to each other that we know how to get through hardship and come out as friends still. , So we sort of, we had our trial run on other people's dime, thankfully. , So yeah, that, that's the caveat. It's like, ignore the advice if you've already trialed this.
, And don't ignore the advice if you have it, and try to get a trial run because it is pivotal to make sure that you guys can navigate like treacherous waters together and come out friends. Um,
[00:17:42] Christian: That's good advice.
[00:17:44] Tina: yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and like, okay. I, I like to think, I'm like, what does that actually mean? Like, to me that means if you're thinking about going into business with someone and you never worked with them in a professional capacity, pick up a part-time job together or like run a marathon together or like just do something really [00:18:00] fucking hard together that , it's going to bring out. of your not best traits and qualities so that you guys can manage how to balance each other in those moments. 'cause that's like what this is, that's pivotal skill to having a
[00:18:14] Christian: I,
[00:18:14] Tina: a co-founder.
[00:18:15] Christian: I call it the 21 day canoe trip, and I've told, I have two sons and I've told both of them before you, um. Get hooked up with anybody for like a lifetime partnership. You have to go on a 21 day canoe trip. 'cause then you'll see what it's like to suffer or what it's like for the other person to suffer.
So not that that's like the best qualification for everything, but it's a pretty good screening process.
[00:18:36] Tina: yeah. Yeah. I think it's really important to at least screen it. You can't simulate the experience perfectly in a trial run, but trying to like get some of your demons out makes it sound so dark. But like, I don't know. Just trying, trying to put yourself in high stakes situations together and high emotional situations.
Well, it's a good test. I
[00:18:56] Christian: Yeah. We've, yeah, we've gotta, we've gotta create the ups and the [00:19:00] downs just to see how we respond or each other responds to the ups and the downs.
[00:19:04] Tina: I agree. So, yeah, the way we organized our business, which is funny, it's not like we're very strategic, but I'm actually surprised we didn't like lay down these laws of strategy from day one. We kind of just like fell into them. 'cause at at the beginning, we were both working on everything. And then as the workload has grown into a mountain, we no longer can do that.
Or else we'd be working all day, every day, like seven days a week. Yeah, we fell into these separate roles which compliment each other so well, and it really, we, we really get to work on our strengths, which is so fun. And I think why Scenic has, has had so much success from the beginning. So, , I am focusing on. Everything, creative marketing product, and then Maddie's focusing on everything, finance, operations, really the important foundation setting of the business that keeps us running and [00:20:00] moving. So it's a really wonderful balance and thankfully again, yeah, it's like we get to play to our strengths in those seats and roles.
[00:20:07] Christian: Is it still just the two of you?
[00:20:09] Tina: So it's, it is not just the two of us. , We actually have had a third team member. She's incredible. Her name's Georgia, she's our head of design, and she's been with us from the development stage. So I would say two months after we wrote the business plan, we hired her. she has been an absolute staple of the success of the brand.
She is not only conceptually designing and sketching, she's also tech packing and working on a lot of the tech design and fit. And her experience is incredible because she comes from not only a technical background, has worked on active wear lines, but also a proper fashion background working at the row in Tycoon and Philip Li and Mark Jacobs.
So she really is this like unicorn who brings this very fashion and [00:21:00] technical brain to our product. And also she is the wildest outdoor woman. I know for someone who lives and like grew up in Brooklyn, she is on a mountain more than people in Utah. She finds her way to the mountains. She is a badass climber, amazing skier.
So she has like that passion point in addition to her incredible skill of design.
[00:21:24] Christian: That's cool.
[00:21:25] Tina: been, it's been us threes from the jump pretty much. And thankfully we've been able to hire agency help or freelance contract work, but it's just us three full-time still.
[00:21:38] Christian: And then how does the decision making work between you and Maddie, like the crossovers? Like does she get, do you pull her into the creative at all? I mean, I know probably on the product side, but like how, where do you guys crossover into each other's verticals?
[00:21:51] Tina: yeah. It's so funny. There's, there's no formal process around this, I mean, at all. , And the ans [00:22:00] the short answer is we we're just each other's sounding boards at this point. There's really not capacity for a three person team at the size and scale of our business. How as quickly as we're growing to like, get. other's approval on every little thing you do. , And that's something that I think we're definitely gonna start building guardrails around, around like what are the gates where we need to present and review these things with each other? , But right now it's just like kind of sitting down and working next to each other and each other as a sounding board.
, So she's yeah, absolutely fully involved influencing the product. And then I would say once I have creative brand marketing concepts developed, I'll get her ideas on is there any way to make this more clear or anything else that comes to mind that would be more impactful. , And then vice versa.
Her and I, we sit through a lot of our inventory management documents and work through talking [00:23:00] about projected run rates and what bets we're willing to make with their investments. So. We try to spend as much time supporting each other's roles and responsibilities. , But it's more of an art than a science.
[00:23:15] Christian: Yeah, yeah. You touched in, in, in that blog post I'm referencing, you talk a lot about the gut and, um, it, it, sometimes people shy away from the gut and I think that there's, our bodies tell us a lot about how we make decisions, right? Like our body actually, I think is probably a better decision maker than our head sometimes.
Like at least they give us, gives us good signs. And, um, yeah, it's finding that balance is super important as an entrepreneur. 'cause sometimes you can get locked in one or the other and not find the balance.
[00:23:44] Tina: Oh, I mean, yeah, personal work life balance is a different topic, but yeah. Balance between like co-founders is in the, uh, between your mind and your gut. I totally agree with you. And that's the beauty too, of having worked with her for so many years, there's this built in trust [00:24:00] that , we don't need each other sort of.
Standing over our shoulders and approving every little micro decision. There's this like really full trust that we're each gonna build the best expression of whatever we're doing.
[00:24:11] Christian: That's wonderful. It's, it's very rare. I, I wanna talk about the creative for a second. 'cause I think it's super rare to have a brand come out fully baked, like scenic. When I first saw your brand sometime September, OC August, I can't remember, but I went and looked at your site and I was like, there's no way that this is a six month old brand.
Like your product video, like your like catalog launch videos and just it's very well thought out and it's super pro.
[00:24:41] Tina: Oh,
[00:24:42] Christian: How did you do that? Because that's to do, be able to do all that. I mean, was that you, did you bring in outside help? Like where is all these thoughts coming from that made it super impactful from the ghetto?
[00:24:55] Tina: Well it is quite surreal to hear you say that. , I think. Uh, [00:25:00] when you're in it, we're so focused on how much better, faster, stronger it can be. So to take a moment and hear that it's resonating as like a fully baked thought is wild. It's resonating like that to someone outside of our mind.
[00:25:13] Christian: There's no way it look, it does not look like a 12 month old brand at all. I.
[00:25:17] Tina: Well, I will say it is, I mean, we've developed variations of this product for our whole careers. , So this is not our first rodeo developing product by any means, nor is it Georgia. She's like such a frigging pro. It's insane. So we had, we had a head start on the product front and I think, , to, to like loosely answer your question, our entire fucking goal when starting the brand was we are making the best product we possibly can and we will figure out the rest.
But all time energy resources. Get exhausted on product and then whatever's left will, will attribute to marketing. , Which is probably [00:26:00] advice most people wouldn't give you. But I stand behind that wholeheartedly, and that's how we operate our business day in and day out. And so I think, yeah, and we got that feedback a lot.
Yeah. People were really interested that we launched a whole collection, like a head to toe assortment, not just one item or, or a category like bottoms or tops. And I think that strategy was really selfish And, , from our background, so selfish because we craved to wear an outdoor brand, we wanted a full look.
We didn't just want a piece to outfit with our Patagonias and our arc TerraX. We wanted a whole new look. And then it also is because of our classic merchandising training, to think in that way of a, a full assortment. And then, . I am trying to think too. So your question is like how,
[00:26:49] Christian: From the brand side. So that's the product side. Like from the brand side, you know, like what is it? Can you put your finger on what it is that you were thinking about to help you make that differentiation [00:27:00] or just kind of come out with, you know, the full gusto?
[00:27:04] Tina: Yeah. It's so funny. It's such a good question. I just think we're just, I think in terms of building worlds, not just rooms, but building a whole world. And I think because that's the filter we Yeah. Sort of built, built the branding in that way. So we have a lot of conversations around like, who is this?
We have like a name for the girl that we're building for, we call her Willow, and we're like, who? Who do the people that Willow surrounds herself look like? What are the rooms that she's in? Looks like what is the car she drives? Who are her favorite artists? What's the music she listens to? , And really try to build this like sensory visual strategy of the brand.
And I think then we just throw a million pieces of content at the wall that are to be pulled [00:28:00] through that filter of Willow and we just see what sticks and go from there. But yeah, to, I mean, 2024 was interesting in terms of branding because I think looking back on it as the person who was driving a lot of the creative strategy and decisions, it felt like I was still figuring out who Scenic was.
And that's the story we wanted to tell. And I like, I can't even like really look at the marketing because I think the launch video that we just put out is like such a pure. Representation of exactly what we're trying to do, exactly who we are. So we're just getting better and better as we go. I don't know if that answers your
[00:28:44] Christian: Y it does. I, yes. Yes it does. Because it, it, it shows that you've, um, you've worked in large companies where you can, you're afforded the opportunity to look at the bigger picture, which I think sometimes happens when we kind of start up founders. We're so [00:29:00] focused on like that, that next step right ahead of us, that it's hard to back up unless you have that experience of seeing the benefit of backing up and looking.
Right. So I think your, your experiences are really, you know, obviously helping you with this. Um, it's interesting that you say that you look back on the first couple videos or the first launch, and you didn't say cringe, but you kind of had this look on your face. Like, you're kinda like, eh, it's not what it, it's not, it's not where we're headed.
[00:29:26] Tina: So much more critique than like, praise for myself of them.
[00:29:30] Christian: Yeah. Are, are you familiar with the, the, the idea of if you don't look back on your first version and cringe, then you waited too long? Okay.
[00:29:39] Tina: am, I fucking live for it. I'm like, be bad. Like suck at what you do. Put it out. That's so epic. And it was interesting. I was digesting your question of how do you define success as I was prepping for this and I was like, honestly, that is a huge way I define success is like how many like [00:30:00] leaps of faith do you take without having all the answers or I think that is just like, that success to me is having balls and like gusto and hoot spot to like go for it
[00:30:10] Christian: Yeah,
[00:30:12] Tina: having things fully baked. Contrary to the question, even though we're saying scenic was fully baked, it like was, but it wasn't.
[00:30:17] Christian: well that was my out from the outside pers Yeah. If the outside perception is this band brand is, looks fully baked for one year, not even 1-year-old, like specifically you're ski, when you launch ski, the video you came out with when you launch the ski line. That is,
[00:30:34] Tina: Yeah.
[00:30:35] Christian: that is like, that is, uh.
[00:30:38] Tina: Give us the honesty too. 'cause it was not built for everyone. Like not everyone was supposed to understand it.
[00:30:44] Christian: Yeah, it was definitely not built for me. Um, but I like it. It was like the art direction. That's a, I guess I'm looking at it from the technical side of it. Like I'm just looking at the art direction. I'm like, is this an actual room? What is this? Where is this? This looks like I can see outside. This [00:31:00] looks like it's actually a house.
Like,
[00:31:01] Tina: So it was a family friends A home office.
[00:31:05] Christian: okay, that's shocking. That's like, um, houses of Zillow for sure. Um, yeah. Okay. Anyway, the art direction on it, I, I love, like, even if it's, even if a, a piece of content, it's not aimed at me. I can appreciate the art direction and the thought that went into it. And so that's what I, it was funny, the, like, there was a lot going on to it, like you were taking this outdoor thing and putting it inside and then you were kind of like, I don't know if you were, but there was a fair bit of tongue in cheek, it seemed like.
[00:31:37] Tina: It
[00:31:37] Christian: In it.
[00:31:38] Tina: irony. The whole piece was irony.
[00:31:40] Christian: Yeah. And so from that perspective, I, I really liked it, especially when you balance it out with, or not balance it out, but like, you run it up against like your latest one for spring 25 when I think you're in the, you're in the desert, maybe you're in Joshua Tree or somewhere like that. And I was like, oh, that's a very different look.
[00:32:00] But, um, it still works. It still feels like it's coming from the same brand, so, no, it's, it's cool.
[00:32:05] Tina: No, it's funny. So ski is such a different world to me. I mean, than the just like general outdoor hike world. And the way the ski, this, I'll give you all the tea. The way the ski video and launch came to life was, , I had just downloaded masterclass. I don't know if you've ever tried it, but it's like pretty epic.
And I was craving to learn from leaders because when you're running a business, it's just you two, three, you three, and like
[00:32:37] Christian: The echo chamber.
[00:32:38] Tina: Yeah. There's, there's not much, um, elevated learning opportunities within your like, immediate bubble versus like working in these billion dollar brands. You'll get to sit in a 30 minute meeting with the most insightful person who spits all this wisdom at you and you , totally changes your brain chemistry. So anyways, I had just downloaded masterclass 'cause I was craving my brain chemistry to be altered a little [00:33:00] bit, inspiration, if you will. And I had just listened to Anna Wintour's Masterclass and if you haven't like it is, it, it totally changed the way I think about creative and brand building.
And her, the biggest takeaway from her masterclass is like, whatever you do, make a statement. Just make a statement like it needs to have purpose and intention and you need to be crystal clear why you're doing this. So Maddie, I like, right? I called Maddie after I listened to this masterclass and I was like, probably speaking a thousand miles a minute and like telling her all this wisdom I just got.
And she was like, okay, let's sit down. It was kinda like the business plan. , She sorts my chaos and she's like, let's sit down and write ideas out on a whiteboard. So we cleared our calendars the next day and of just talked through out loud what is the statement we want to make with this ski collection.
And for us it really was, , making the statement that you can [00:34:00] express femininity at the highest levels. Meaning in common language you can be sexy and be a badass skier. Like you can be hot, sexy, feminine, express that, and also. Totally rip it on the mountain. So, , I think that's where the irony came from.
'cause there's just so much stereotyping around femininity in terms of the ski category. And everyone's so fucking afraid to use the word sex or to use sex to sell ski. Like it doesn't happen. And Maddie and I come from Victoria's Secret, where like multi-billion dollar item is a pushup bra. So all we know is how to sell sex.
And it's empowering. And when you take that energy back as a woman and you use it to build your own confidence, like there's just, I could ramble about this for hours, but it's just such a world that the ski category doesn't dip a toe into. So we were like, fuck it, we wanna just like make this statement that you can be sexy and a [00:35:00] badass skier.
So.
[00:35:01] Christian: That's in, uh, the, the, that's good. I appreciate that. The thought that came to my mind, the thought that came to my mind, I'm gonna age myself 'cause I, I'm old enough to have experienced, , when there was actually a ski show, and it used to be in Las Vegas and the ski industry, de 100% used sex to sell skis.
It just wasn't, uh, selling ski equipment to women. Um. Yeah, it was like, it was, it was a different, it was a different day. It was a different era for sure.
[00:35:30] Tina: I get the, I know, I've heard
[00:35:32] Christian: Yeah. If you, I don't know if you remember like Yeah. Ski posters from back in the day. It was like, okay, we're definitely using sex. It's just not the way you're talking about it.
[00:35:40] Tina: yeah. Yeah. And yeah, sex, selling sex to like, selling female sex to a man is like totally different energy
[00:35:49] Christian: Yes,
[00:35:50] Tina: to a woman, right? Like, like also created by a woman. So yeah, there's
[00:35:55] Christian: Yeah. It,
[00:35:56] Tina: inputs.
[00:35:58] Christian: yeah. And, but it's funny, it's funny because [00:36:00] that you don't see any of that anymore in the ski industry, thankfully. , But I can understand it from, from the female consumer perspective. It, it probably feels, uh, a little bit, um, dry and hollow, but thankfully, see it's the scene. I'll definitely link to your video because, um, it, it captures it.
You, you captured in the video the thoughts you just said, like, you, you nailed it. So good job.
[00:36:23] Tina: Well, I'm glad because honestly we put it out and it was not well received by everyone. There were girls who were like, like losing their minds, loved it. Were like, yes, give us more. And there were people, like, we were working with a PR agency at the time, and they were like, what did you guys just do? And we were like, okay, you, you're, you don't understand us. We gotta . Go our separate ways here, but , yeah, it's, it's really fun. It was a fun piece and I think those are the important things to do to disrupt an age old industry that doesn't evolve quickly and hasn't had many new players. I think that's also why we were really inspired [00:37:00] to make a piece like that, not a traditional ski video of someone like sending it off a cliff.
Because one, we didn't have the time resources to do it. We couldn't fly to Europe. We had just gotten our samples in October. It was 80 degrees across the country. There was no snow to film on for us. So we were being scrappy with our resources as well as still trying to make a statement that would land with the girl we were trying to speak to in our building for. And thank God it worked because it was bold, it was not shy.
[00:37:33] Christian: Yeah, you made a statement. Good job.
[00:37:36] Tina: Thank
[00:37:36] Christian: I wanna talk about, you've touched on it a little bit and, and going back, kind of drawing back on your blog post, the idea of niching down and people saying, oh, no, no, no, don't, what are you doing doing outdoor and ski in this year? One, like easy, easy. Um, so the idea of niching down, so I'm curious of how you approach product line expansion.
You've talked about a little bit about your merchandising experience, but like, so there's the, how are you approaching product [00:38:00] line expansion as a small brand? 'cause there's ramifications from SKU management and inventory management. And then also like, what are you doing on that same note of like, how do you deal with MOQs and finding factories and all this thing?
'cause you're, you know, early days. That's, that's almost the hardest part of product development.
[00:38:18] Tina: Oh my God. Beyond so hard. okay. Yeah. How we are approaching product line expansion is by focusing on a few key sports and end uses. So we're really focusing on the mountain. And in spring summer the expression of mountain activity for our scenic girl is mainly hiking, camping, climbing. We learned quickly last year, girls were climbing in our trail mix pant and there's actually trims on that trail mix pan that hang off the garment that make it quite dangerous to climb in.
So they were not built for that end use, but because we learned that this is a key part of her outdoor repertoire, we started to build for it this year and she's loved it so far [00:39:00] that some of our bestselling items that we just launched. But , so yeah, we're, we're thinking about the mountain, about what activities she partakes in.
So hike, climb are really the key focuses for spring summer. I think we will get into, I'm really excited about trail run. I think that's a category that product is typically quite versatile and um, there's just so much happening in the run space that's so exciting right now.
[00:39:24] Christian: Yeah.
[00:39:27] Tina: Those are the, those are the activities and end uses I think we're gonna stick with for the warmer months of the year. We won't get into biking. I think that's a whole nother world that I really believe you have to be an expert in, not only a personal expert, but also a development expert to build the best innovative product for that end use. So, would love to collaborate with any bike brand, but won't ever be developing scenic specific bike product. , Then for winter, thinking about the scenic girl on the mountain, she really focuses on ski snowboard [00:40:00] and a little bit of Nordic activity. And then snowshoeing too, I feel like is just blowing up. So those are the activities we're gonna be focusing on. And then, yeah, again, we're classically trained merchants, so quite laser focused on making sure we're. Developing an assortment that's cohesive head to toe and can allow a consumer to purchase into the scenic full look. But we're also not, we're not overdeveloping. We're launching six style collections a few times a year, and we really don't build product that doesn't have an innovation or a purpose point.
We're not putting more product out in the world just because it's an outfit completer. Every piece really has to have an intention. Why is this scenic piece, why does it need to exist? How is it solving a problem that no other product in the market solves, whether that's a technical functional problem or it's an aesthetic problem. , So that's how we're [00:41:00] approaching the assortment. And then in terms of sourcing manufacturing, MOQs, it is, hands down, one of the hardest parts of starting a business is trying to convince. The experts of this industry who, 'cause there's very few of them who have the right machines capabilities, the history creating these garments to make mins for you.
, So in 2024, we absolutely negotiated the lowest mins we humanly could. It was still a terrifying amount of to sign up for , thank God we sold through it and we're able to figure out how to get some marketing moving to, to get the product offloaded and into women's hands. But, um, yeah, it's, it's really difficult.
And I would say a key reason why we prioritized hiring a head of design as our first hire was because she came with this incredible little black book of [00:42:00] relationships with ven vendors and manufacturers as well as Maddie and i's own relationships. So, I mean, I have the biggest. , The biggest kudos in the world to anyone who starts an apparel brand without any experience, because I could never have done it. I, it just, it takes so much balls and so much grit. And thankfully we had a lot of prior knowledge and resources and existing relationships that helped us work with the best manufacturers in the industry. And again, because nailing product from the jump was our only fucking goal, that basically means like your manufacturer is your most important partner.
More important than any investor, any brand partner, any retailer like the manufacturer is, our gold star. So, or our North Star I should say.
[00:42:54] Christian: And did you find, did you find the, the factory like, this is the factory we need to work with, and then start to [00:43:00] negotiate on minimums? Or did you have to balance, okay, what factories is good enough, but also in the minimum realm we can deal with?
[00:43:08] Tina: So our process was we put together a brand deck and sent it out to our top 10 list of vendors that we wanted to work with. 70% of them didn't even answer. We got three responses and had them develop samples for us. And while samples were in development and we were reviewing construction, we were also negotiating costing admins. And ultimately we landed on working with the partner that we could see ourselves scaling with the most and had the best technical sound capabilities of construction.
[00:43:43] Christian: That's awesome. I'm glad
[00:43:45] Tina: strategy.
[00:43:46] Christian: I was gonna say, I'm glad you said it that way because that's something that working with or sampling with simultaneous factories is so key. 'cause typically we think, I'm gonna work with this one. Oh, that one didn't work. And then, you know, you're 18 months down [00:44:00] the road and you're like, I still don't have any products.
So. Uh, that's a sign of experience. Good job. That's a very helpful tip for those of us out there listening who are about to start their apparel brand.
[00:44:09] Tina: Yes. Well, or I mean, it's also not even learning that just from our experience, it's just like we are setting this brand up to for success and to win and putting all eggs in one basket rarely pans out. We're not
[00:44:24] Christian: Sure.
[00:44:25] Tina: So I think we just like, we always keep like the probability and odds in mind.
Like I just, I like to think a lot of business as like, this is all just like one big game of blackjack and like what are the odds and how do you offset your risk? And it's fun to think about it in that way. It takes the emotion out for someone who's highly emotional. But you had another part to your question about was this, did you also ask here niching down that was like the,
[00:44:51] Christian: Yeah. Well, the bad advice or the advice, not the bad advice, the advice that you chose not to take was people were saying niche down and you said, well, maybe [00:45:00] not.
[00:45:00] Tina: also tell you how many people, I mean more people than not told us we were complete idiots for launching ski. Like dumbest thing we could do hands down, dumbest thing we could do. That's all we heard. So it was pretty wild. It, it totally fueled this fire in us of like, and I think that's where the energy of the launch came from too, from that video.
We were like, wanted to stick it to the man a little bit. and yeah, I mean the collection sold out in eight weeks. We have an
[00:45:29] Christian: Oh.
[00:45:29] Tina: 200 person wait list on just one of the kit color ways. Like, it's insane. The retailers who picked it up were gonna be in resorts across the country. , A lot of wholesale expansion coming for fall 25.
So it really was a risk that was highly advised against by. Some of the best in the industry. And though that was the moment to really the gut, we were like, as the exact woman we're building for, [00:46:00] we still can't find the product, so we're just gonna test it and see what happens. And it was a huge investment.
It was terrifying, but it only fueled our fire harder to sell product.
[00:46:12] Christian: Out of curiosity, was that advice coming from men or women?
[00:46:18] Tina: That's a good question. I would say the, the short answer is men, but of the voices in the rooms we were in were also men. So it's not like we gave women the opportunity to answer. Um,
[00:46:32] Christian: I could see that. I could see like look as a, from a male perspective, looking at them like, I don't know. I don't think that makes sense, but it's like that just goes to show like how out to lunch we are.
[00:46:41] Tina: No. And on paper, no. And it, it has nothing to do with gender either. On paper, it's a ridiculous strategy, like global warming. The ski market is continuing to shrink and niche down, like as a category in general. season is getting shorter and shorter. The product is such [00:47:00] an expensive investment. , There, I mean, the influencer marketing strategy is completely different.
There are no ski influencers. It's a total athlete landscape where you have to buy into sponsorships and programs, and it's like a totally different ball game. And we learned it a lot of the stuff the hard way. But we're, it, it's not, it's not scary to us. And we're excited to tackle those, I guess, road bumps and roadblocks and learn how to overcome them and really build for this consumer, because thankfully we proved that the demand is there for this new outdoor consumer wanting ski gear.
[00:47:37] Christian: Yeah. So we've talked, I've, you've talked about, and mentioned this, this consumer, this willow, as you call it. How did you find your early customers, so when you launch, you go to launch, like how did you find them to, to start, and then what has worked the best for you over the last year to kind of build that audience?
[00:47:54] Tina: I think self-admittedly again, one of the things we could have done better at is [00:48:00] consumer market fit testing before launch, but that's just not our style. So we really started finding the consumers day one of launch and quickest, fastest, most seamless place to find them.
So far has been Instagram absolutely use Instagram as a resource for brand product education and discovery. And um, also just a source for inspiration. So. That's been one of the quickest ways. Um, we're also really excited to expand our retail partnerships and help of connecting us to our customer and finding that scenic girl. And then the other has really been through just, only the community we're building online, but also taking that community offline and fostering this word of mouth. I think what we've been really lucky and what I think has made [00:49:00] Scenic successful off the rip is we've gained the attention of the industry, the professionals in the industry, not just the consumers. And that's something that was really important to Maddie and I because we want the buy-in from our peers, from the founders of the other brands that we adore. And yeah, I think the world, the word of mouth has been spreading quite quickly and have learned that we're definitely on. People's brand watch list, which is really crazy and surreal.
So
[00:49:33] Christian: Congratulations. Going back to Instagram for one second. Is it like, what are you doing to, is it organic? How, how much of his paid, how much of influencers, like how are you managing kind of that, like what's your, what's your strategy there for getting, finding the right people to work with?
[00:49:49] Tina: Most of the growth has been through organic, social, just truly as much content as we can that we feel is valuable and entertaining [00:50:00] putting it out into the world.
Reading the analytics and from that. And then we have started to dip our toe into the paid ads world. So we've been on meta a bit. We're just starting with Google, so we're like really just starting that journey. Haven't gone into it much. And then in terms of influencers, we've had a small strategy, so. really just focused on gifting girls that we're inspired by. , And I should back up a bit. We have to date only worked on one paid influencer deal, so all of the influencer shout outs and promotions so far have been favors and gifted, which is incredible. we're really just trying to find girls that feel like an organic natural fit and are really speak the scenic girls tone and voice, and um, can hopefully throw us a story shout out or a post.
[00:50:56] Christian: Can I ask you? That's that's something that comes up quite a bit in the conversations I have [00:51:00] with people. Like just a little bit behind the nuts and bolts of how that works. So you find somebody, so you find an account that you're like, okay, she's speaking to the audience. This is somebody we, we would love to see wearing scenic.
What does the process look like to contact them, gift them product, and then put in the ask, what does that look like?
[00:51:20] Tina: Yeah. It looks like me reach, like DMing the account, trying to build a bit of a personal relationship, , whether it's through dms or moving the conversation over to email, sharing the brand message and the, the mission behind scenic, and then offering to them some items and asking if they would be interested in creating some sort of content in return.
So it's that, that simple.
[00:51:48] Christian: And then follow up question is, do you ever have to remind them that the content was a part of the deal?
[00:51:58] Tina: I will say, [00:52:00] because we haven't, the reach outs have been very pointed and specific. Um, and we've tried to build actual friendships and relationships with the girls. , There, there's a little bit of follow up, but we're not reaching out to a hundred girls. It's like a list of 10 to 20. It's
[00:52:16] Christian: Okay.
[00:52:17] Tina: limited and, um, targeted in our approach. one thing that has been helpful, which is without having to pay influencers cash up front, 'cause we don't have it today, we have set up an affiliate program where if they drive sales from their links, they do get a commission. So that's at least like some sort of change back in their wallet, um, which girls have found value in.
So we're doing everything we can to support them and also try to spread the mission and the
[00:52:46] Christian: Yeah, I mean, it sounds like you're building relationships as opposed to transactions, so that's great.
[00:52:51] Tina: Yeah, that's really what it's been. It's been really organic so far, honestly.
[00:52:56] Christian: great. I have to ask, how did you end up [00:53:00] with a pretty sweet SUV to cruise around the country and for a year? What is that story?
[00:53:05] Tina: oh my gosh, it's crazy. So, , during that session, after listening to the Anna Wintour Masterclass where Maddie and I were like feverishly writing on the whiteboard, we were just brainstorming the most iconic ways to launch a ski collection. And one of the thoughts immediately was getting some sort of van and throwing the kits in the van and just driving to every mountain humanly possible, not, not a, , original thought.
I think there's so many brands that have started this way and we really value that grassroots strategy
[00:53:38] Christian: It works. I.
[00:53:39] Tina: yeah, it's incredible and. We were working with a PR agency at the time that was also repping Indios, which is a new off-road vehicle brand based in the uk. They had just launched in the US in March of last year.
So they were trying to grow their brand awareness and it was truly [00:54:00] we got so lucky. We truly just created a pitch deck and met a few of their marketing executives. And I think we got lucky because one of the marketing executives had wanted to start his own business and he was so inspired by just the grit and all of the work Maddie and I were doing and he pulled strings and made it happen.
So now we have this beautiful iNOS Grenadier for a year. We'll be driving it. We actually just drove it from Colorado to the East coast so that we can bring it up to Manhattan for an event in the city, as well as the Switchback trade show in June, which we'll be at, which will be really cool in Nashville. then we'll bring it back to the West coast for ski season, so
[00:54:44] Christian: Very cool.
[00:54:45] Tina: Yeah,
[00:54:46] Christian: Good for you. Very lucky. Well, you increased your luck surface area, so nice, nice work.
[00:54:51] Tina: yeah. Exactly. It was all, it was Odds increase the odds of getting that
[00:54:56] Christian: Yeah.
[00:54:56] Tina: in black track.
[00:54:58] Christian: One of the points in your [00:55:00] blog post is find investors so you can grow fast and I. Like we've talked about hitting MQs and launching a brand and doing all these things. You've been, you know, you're in scrappy startup mode for sure. And you're bootstrapping. , And I'm just curious though, so you've chosen not to take on the typical kind of standard vc, but how, how are you capitalizing the business as much as you're willing to talk about, and what does that look like?
[00:55:28] Tina: yeah. We have a few key strategic angel ambassadors who not only are helping to. Support the business financially, but also from their experiences. , I think any partner that we bring into this really precious world of scenic, hopefully has multiple types of value to add. So that's really how we've gotten to this point is, , through angel investment. And something I like to talk about too is Maddie and I have not taken a salary yet over the last [00:56:00] two years. So, and it's not uncommon, but I think founders shy away from talking about that. And I think that it's such a stamp of honor, like this is we are truly not in this to make money. We're in this to build, again, a world in the community for the girls who don't feel serviced in the outdoors and hopefully become a hundred year brand that changes the landscape of the industry and becomes a household name.
And it's very hard to do that with really intense. Sales pressure and goals and voices in the room who might not be motivated in the same way you are when it, there's so many success stories of VC funding as well, so it's a generalized statement, but we were focused on trying to protect the vision and the mission of the brand as long as we could.
[00:56:45] Christian: Yeah, it's hard though in a apparel based seasonal business, like you find yourself in that, that doesn't typically fit with the VC model, right? 'cause it takes a long time and you can't just flip switches to grow [00:57:00] by 800% in quarter. So, um, there are very physical challenges that come with the type of business that you're in that makes it near impossible,
[00:57:09] Tina: yeah.
[00:57:10] Christian: or you can do it and then you end up seeing, uh, brands like Allbirds.
And this is what happens when you, when you do that, you're never profitable and you blow it all up. So.
[00:57:18] Tina: totally. Yeah. It's just not the game we were into play. We we're interested in a bit, a bit more of an intentional. Culture shifting commentary, like innovation game, then a quick fast growth.
[00:57:33] Christian: So it just leads me to ask, I, I have to ask. It is, so are you living off savings? Do you have partners that are helping you out? Like, how does this work if you're not drawing salaries for two years?
[00:57:42] Tina: it's like super scrappy. Yeah. Um, I convinced my sweet husband to move in with my mother. So we live with my sweet mom I mean, our basement, my mother's basement was our inventory warehouse for the first year of the brand. We just moved to a proper fulfillment center a month ago. , It's as scrappy as it [00:58:00] gets.
[00:58:00] Christian: That's awesome.
[00:58:01] Tina: yeah, picking up odd jobs when your stockpile starts to run low and it's, it's scrappy, but thankfully, um, there's a lot of signs pointing to the scrappiness being worth it.
[00:58:15] Christian: Well, that leads to the, the fourth and final, uh, point that you made is the advice of working harder. Sorry, working smarter, not harder. So what's your counter to that advice?
[00:58:25] Tina: Yeah, I fucking hate that advice for, for a new founder. I think it's such bullsh*t I think it is so demotivating. Like what a way to demotivate someone who is building something from scratch, like, ugh, me nuts. Um, my advice is like, embrace the hard it is. It sucks so much the moment it will be so entirely worth it, much sooner than [00:59:00] you think is possible. it is such a privilege to the hardship that comes with starting a business. It is not something that everyone has the opportunity to do in their life. The fact that I have a mom that I can move into, 'cause she has an her, have a mom who has a home with an extra room that I can move into is a complete privilege.
So I think it's always just making sure you keep perspective and your life and yeah, keep, stay crystal clear on what an opportunity this is and will you likely ever get the opportunity to do this again? And probably not in this lifetime or many lifetimes. So that embrace the hardship because it is a once in a lifetime opportunity.
Truly.
[00:59:50] Christian: Yeah. Are you familiar with Todd Graves? The owner of, this is a weird one, but raising cane's, the fast food restaurant.
[00:59:57] Tina: No, but there's so many of them in
[00:59:59] Christian: There's, [01:00:00] there's so many of 'em. He, it, I just, I listened to this podcast called The Founder's Podcast, and this is a total tangent. I'm just gonna say it and I'll link to it in the show notes.
It's an excellent episode. And I had no idea about it. I've seen Raising CAEs. I've never been there. But his story, he basically, he,
[01:00:14] Tina: It's so good.
[01:00:16] Christian: that's what I've heard. And now I'm like, now I'm obsessed. Um, I've like, I need to go. Uh, but his story is basically, he wrote a business plan in business school and he got the lowest grade in the class, and the business plan was for raising canes.
And he said, Nope, this isn't my thing. I'm doing it. He went to Alaska and worked on a commercial fishing boat to make the money to then go and build the first restaurant. And he like did the plumbing, did the thing, worked the, and he worked every day. He was 24 when he started it. He worked every day and they're open late, right.
So he worked every day, seven days a week for years, and I think they're like 800 plus stores now. And he owns all of it. He's never taken on anything.
[01:00:57] Tina: Isn't that epic?
[01:00:59] Christian: And if you go [01:01:00] watch him on YouTuber, follow his Instagram or whatever it is, like the dude is stoked on his business and he is so happy. And the thing that he says is like, we're growing faster, more 30 years later than they did at the beginning.
So I just, it kind of, when you said that, it just reminded me as like, yeah, you gotta do the hard work. 'cause if this is what you want to do, if this is like the business that's gonna, you're gonna ride this wave for years, you won't, you won't even remember it. You won't even remember the hard work in 10, 15, 20 years.
[01:01:29] Tina: you'll miss it. That's like the fucked up part about it too. Usually people who find themselves in the founder, entrepreneur, c are like, have a screw loose. Right. And I can say
[01:01:39] Christian: I.
[01:01:39] Tina: 'cause it takes one to no one, but, um, yeah, you'll, you'll so miss it because there's so much beauty in hardship and it like doing the hard work is the hack.
It is the shortcut. It is the only way to get smarter, better, faster, stronger. So, and of course, like I think I followed up with that advice in my [01:02:00] substack by saying. The first year. I think it's really important to really ignore that advice. Like do everything, like learn what you suck at, learn what you rock at, learn what you hate to do. You have to dip your toe into every part of the business to figure that out. And then year two, I would say it's worth starting to optimize that a bit more and trying to get a little bit more efficient. But year
[01:02:27] Christian: The,
[01:02:27] Tina: just so
[01:02:29] Christian: the days will come where you can get work smarter. I mean, system, systems, processes, it will all come for sure. That's awesome. , On that note, what have been the biggest challenges for you so far in the last, you know, the year of development and the year of launch? Like, I know that's been a bunch of challenges, the ups and downs, but can you think of a couple of the big challenges and what you did to kind of take 'em on?
[01:02:51] Tina: few off the bat, I would say one is just. It really the amount of grit it takes to get knocked down multiple [01:03:00] times a day and get back up at the end and show up for yourself the next day. I thought I was gritty. I thought I was hardcore and like had the determination of a horse, but my gosh, this has tested me in so many ways and , it takes an incredible attention to detail and focus and effort to build something from nothing, especially an apparel brand.
So that alone has been quite a challenge to figure out how to balance life, physical, mental health and build, put your all into something. I think that will forever be a challenge for me as a human. I'm so such focused on building something perfect that I lose myself in it, and I'm so obsessed. Have you seen the movie Whiplash?
[01:03:50] Christian: Oh yeah.
[01:03:51] Tina: I just like, just the concept that like, what, what's the line between perfection and crazy and are you willing to [01:04:00] sacrifice to get there is such, it will be my forever. Like That's what I'm looking for in life and trying to solve an answer, probably partially through building this brand. but it's, it's a challenge and it's an amazing challenge to get to work on every day and learn.
So that's been hard. Um, other I would say is absolutely going from working at billion dollar industry, leading brands with every team for everything to a team of three, it is such a challenge. 'cause we work and process in that billion dollar corporate way. Like that's how we've been trained and we're learning to, we're unlearning a lot of that methodology and theory.
So that's been a challenge for sure. I would say sourcing, even though we came to the table with. So much of a headstart compared to other brands still has been a challenge to find partners who are, and I would say that the biggest challenge is finding partners who [01:05:00] are building the of product that we want at the price that makes sense to sell to wholesale partners. Incredibly difficult, not impossible, but difficult. So those are some of the big ones. , I mean the, there's more of that than there are wins, so we could go on and on about that.
[01:05:20] Christian: Yeah, we'll, we'll maybe we'll have a year two or uh, year three or whatever it is. , Where do you want scenic to be in three years? Like where do you picture, like when you. Close your eyes and lay to sleep at night, and you're thinking about scenic in three years, where do you want scenic to be in three years?
And then where do you want to grow as an entrepreneur and founder in those three years?
[01:05:39] Tina: Yeah. I like this question. A lot. There's, and three years is funny. So in, in three years, hopefully I'm rounding up a little bit, but we will have been in the world curtains up for five total years and I think by that point, [01:06:00] and I'm hungry, so I'm crazy. But I would love seeing it to be a household name by that point.
I would love to have scenic, be the go-to destination for this modern, younger, to 30 outdoor woman and really have the trust and the credibility of her, not only for technicality and function, but also as a source of aesthetic trend and styling inspiration. So I think that's like my overarching answer.
I think, , we absolutely have sales goals and targets mapped out for that point that are much more boring to talk about. But yeah, I think. Hoping to have made such a statement in this next few years and hopefully built strong enough products to really gain the trust of consumers by then to be name.
[01:06:54] Christian: And you, where are you gonna be?
[01:06:55] Tina: yeah. Me. I love this question too. [01:07:00] I was thinking a lot about this and I think I would even, I am I, this is something I need to really meditate on, but my short answer for you is I am really excited to become, hopefully, thankfully, God willing, become the leader that I always wished I had and grow the team. I think I am, as a leader, I'm really interested in inspiring people to be the best versions of themself and. Put out the purest expression of their creativity into no matter what function you work on, whether it's a creative function or a analytical function. Hoping to be the cheerleader for people in our scenic world or even our community and customers, or even as a mentor for people who aren't related to the scenic brand and are just needing advice and encouragement to start their own or chase their own dreams.
[01:07:57] Christian: That's good. I just read this yesterday that [01:08:00] leadership is confused with authority, but it actually means inspiration.
[01:08:05] Tina: Oh,
[01:08:06] Christian: So that's a really what you said about being an inspiring leader. Yeah. I think effective leadership is typically. Inspirational and not authoritarian. So that's really good.
[01:08:16] Tina: I like that. I haven't heard that. I've always read like, or not always. The things I've read that have really resonated with me was like, leadership is service.
[01:08:24] Christian: Hmm.
[01:08:25] Tina: I really do like to think . I am here to serve my team and like I, I work for my team. , I think that is such a great mental, , power dynamic shift as a leader to have. 'cause it is like, you're such a, I mean, nothing, nothing gets done with one brain Right. Or
[01:08:43] Christian: Yeah.
[01:08:44] Tina: gets done. So,
[01:08:45] Christian: That's wonderful that you're thinking about this early. I mean, you're definitely, you're both thinking about building this Yeah. Household brand. It's very cool to, I'm honored that, uh, be podcast number two that you've been on. We'll, we'll look back on this 10 years from now and be like, wow, you this, it'd be awesome to see, [01:09:00] uh, the seeds, the, you know, flour.
Right. And I think that's really cool that you're in this early stage.
[01:09:06] Tina: after one year we're like, what the hell has just happened? We, it's like, it's very hard to take a pause and kind of catch up, catch your breath on what just gone on because time slips by.
[01:09:20] Christian: Yeah, and it'll just speed up. Just wait. So final question that I always ask everybody, you've alluded to it a little bit. So how do you define success for yourself?
[01:09:29] Tina: God, this was such an epic question. Can I tell you what amazing questions you have?
[01:09:34] Christian: Oh, thanks. I.
[01:09:35] Tina: I'm blown away. And I love, I love that you ask everyone of this. I think this is like a new, this is a new question I'm excited to meditate on for a long time, many years. But I do think a few ways I define success are either one, how many [01:10:00] times you get knocked at, knocked down and still get back up. , There's nothing more successful than that to me. And then two, and I don't know if these are the same concepts maybe, but what we talked about earlier, it's like how many times do you a risk follow your gut? It's such an interesting, I. It's such an interesting way, like, uh, thought process or theory on how to live.
And I think the most successful businesses that I really look up to did not have a playbook, have not existed before. I liked your other prep question about what other brands and like leaders inspire you. And I mean, it's probably my algorithm just like shoving Steve Jobs down my throat, but like get all of his, all the reels about him and that's like my whole Instagram. I've also read his Walter Isaacson book and I'm, I'm just, you know, so inspired [01:11:00] by what he's built and I think he just followed his gut with pure tenacity and at the cost of so many emotions and feelings of other people around him, which is like not the way you have to do it, but, um, I think that is true success.
So answering two questions with one, but.
[01:11:19] Christian: I love it.
[01:11:20] Tina: Yeah,
[01:11:21] Christian: Okay. I'm just writing down because I'm, um, I'm gonna send you some podcasts to listen to.
[01:11:27] Tina: please do. I am like, it's so funny, I, I have a hard time finding ones I actually enjoy listening to.
[01:11:35] Christian: Oh, okay. Well, I think I, I may, I mean, we all have our own distinct taste, and I find that typically whenever I suggest podcasts to people, they're like, yeah, great. That's good for you. , So maybe it lands, maybe it doesn't, but the Steve Jobs thing, you said something earlier and then we'll wrap it up. I'm gonna land this plane, I promise.
Um,
[01:11:51] Tina: keep it flying.
[01:11:52] Christian: , You said something earlier about, you didn't say these words, but this is what I, this is a picture I had a minute. It's almost like this obsession, like with perf you [01:12:00] use the word perfection and , and the hard work and those things. And like Steve Jobs is a great example of that. And you also said like, if you're gonna be an entrepreneur, you're have to have a screw loose.
The, all those things are true. Like, I agree a hundred percent. Sometimes the screw loosey part of the founder and high power CEO gets, um. Not necessarily overblown, but studied too much in the sense of like, yeah they are, they definitely did some things that were unhealthy for sure, but we have to like, okay, learn from that.
Correct that, but then there's this whole, this other aspect of , yeah, when you see that they were obsessed with the product and they just weren't gonna sleep on it and they were, you know, good would not be good enough. Like that's where pretty amazing things happen. And it is 100% okay to be an entrepreneur who is not going to do those things.
And there are [01:13:00] tons of businesses that are very successful and super fun to run and they are not those types of founders and types of, you do not have to be that way. If you are that way though, that's great. Just like warn everybody around you that that's the mission you're going on. And. Do go that do it.
Like it's so awesome because then it's like you're gonna just, okay, just everybody know for the next 10 years I'm just gonna focus on this. And that's cool. Like that's good.
[01:13:27] Tina: yeah. I think it's interesting. I think there is such an emphasis and I don't, I don't know why it is. There's probably some really good psychology that can back this, but I feel like there's such a focus on, it's funny as I'm building this brand, even, it's like we do as a society tend to now in the new age, past like the industrial revolution and like the white collar boom, it's like there is this focus on work-life balance.
And I think there's almost a discouragement to going [01:14:00] hard, being obsessed, chasing your dreams at the cost of other things. And, um. I hope that there's someone listening to your podcast today who is willing to give it their all and just needs the reminder that like, it is okay to do it and you should follow that gut instinct to go for it hard at the cost of what might seem crazy to other people.
You know? I think that's, just, it's so cool. There's nothing cooler.
[01:14:29] Christian: Yeah.
[01:14:30] Tina: Jobs is so iconic because he just followed what was right for his rhythm and whiplash. It was like such a similar story, like just love the line for crazy for him was so much different than the world around him or the people around him.
And you have to follow what's right for you. And there's not one way to your point, but your way and that is what you should follow. So it is so interesting. Send me the podcast. I can't wait.
[01:14:57] Christian: No. Okay, good. Well that's back to the final question [01:15:00] of how do you define a success for yourself? 'cause it's success isn't one size fits all. And I think that idea of we need to have work life balance because that's success for some people and that is a great. Definition of success for some people and other people's definition of success is they're an artist more than they are a business person, and so they are going to obsess over this business and there will be no work-life balance for a certain amount of time.
As long as everybody in their family and around them knows that this is what's happening and is aware of the trade-offs that are going to be made because of it, then that's how they define success. Then God bless. Let's do it, you know.
[01:15:38] Tina: love, I love that you caveat with that consistently. I need to learn more. You wear that the like warn everyone around you. 'cause it's so true. Like, it's like is shocking to people when you change your rhythm and you jump full into an obsession and it can. can change the rhythm of people around you and relationships around you, and it totally like [01:16:00] interrupts the flow of what life had been prior or whatever idea journey you're embarking on. It's a really good caveat that you keep throwing in there. I really like that.
[01:16:11] Christian: Well, those are typically the ones who suffer. It's when the people who are obsessed w want to do the other things too, or feel the obligated to get sucked into the other things too. It's like, no, no, no, no, that you don't have space and time in your life right now for that. If you do that, they're gonna be trade offs and they're probably gonna be the people.
So that's why I say it's like important to warn the world around you.
[01:16:33] Tina: Oh my God. You must be like, I can tell you're a brilliant communicator. 'cause that what, I mean, you have such an awareness to be able to warn mm-hmm. Your surroundings that like, you know, being that clear, like, this is where I am, this is my, this is what I'm going through and this is what my vision is right now.
I'm like. as needed, adjust as necessary around me.
[01:16:56] Christian: The awareness only comes through scars, [01:17:00] so thank you for saying that. But those, it comes, I came by it, honestly.
[01:17:05] Tina: I can relate. My poor husband, oh my God, he is
[01:17:08] Christian: Yeah.
[01:17:09] Tina: a sweetheart.
[01:17:10] Christian: Well May Yeah. Maybe you just have to sit him down and have a really, um, clear what he's in for. Maybe you already had that conversation. Yeah,
[01:17:16] Tina: many, many, many, many
[01:17:17] Christian: yeah,
[01:17:18] Tina: We could do a whole nother podcast about like being a founder with the perspective of as like, uh, someone in a relationship. It is such like a, yeah, it's interesting.
[01:17:27] Christian: yeah, for sure.
[01:17:27] Tina: dynamics. It affects your whole life, so,
[01:17:30] Christian: And that's why I love, that's why I love, I, I love business and entrepreneurship because it's, um, there's very few things in life where you're going to learn more about yourself,
[01:17:39] Tina: oh my gosh.
[01:17:40] Christian: right? You could go to war, you can birth a child, or you can own a business. And I think those are pretty much the three, they're gonna show you the most about who you are.
I'm not gonna choose the first two, so I'll just take the third. Thank you.
[01:17:52] Tina: I had no fucking clue. Like starting, I was like, okay, this is like, this is not a self-exploration, but [01:18:00] my God, it has been a full, like, cut, open, turn inside out and like, like rethink everything you knew about yourself. It's such a wild internal experience.
[01:18:11] Christian: Yep.
[01:18:11] Tina: idea.
[01:18:13] Christian: It's, it's, it's, it's a great way to accelerate your growth.
[01:18:17] Tina: Yeah. Yeah. So embrace it. Don't try to shortcut it.
[01:18:20] Christian: That's great. Do the work. You gotta do the work. Cool. Okay. Well thanks so much Tina. This has been such a wonderful conversation. And, um, before we jump. Please tell people where to go if they wanna learn more about scenic.
[01:18:31] Tina: Yes. Best way to learn about scenic would be on our website, which is scenic brand.com. That's S-E-N-I-Q brand.com or through our Instagram, we do a lot of product education, styling, inspiration, featuring our community hosting, or it's a platform where we also market to community events that we're having in real life.
Um, so yeah, that's just at Scenic on Instagram.
[01:18:57] Christian: Awesome.
[01:18:58] Tina: then we will be launching with some pretty [01:19:00] epic retail partners so stay tuned. Check out our Instagram and our website for more details there, but you might be able to touch and feel and try on Scenic in a store near you.
[01:19:11] Christian: Cool. Thanks so much, Tina.
[01:19:13] Tina: Thank you.
[01:19:14] Christian: I.
[01:19:14] Tina: you. Thank you. This was amazing.