KORE Outdoors Podcast

[00:00:00] Christian: Kelly, good to see. Good to see you in person.
[00:00:02] Kelli: nice to see you too. So
[00:00:04] Christian: Good.
Yeah. I love your background that everybody should be watching this on YouTube so you can see all the different, uh, backgrounds of the corkboard behind Kelly's head here.
[00:00:12] Kelli: lots of different designs. We got about 23 different artists. So yeah, add flare or repair.
[00:00:20] Christian: That's a great tagline. , you've been very transparent when you've been growing noso over the last, um, many years. And there are a ton of interviews that you've been very generous with your time on podcast, , written interviews. And so I'd encourage people to go find those stories and those interviews of you so they can get kind of the.
Origin story. I don't wanna dive too far into the origin story, but there is a component of how you got started. You were tinkering in the garage basically to try to find the right adhesives and the right materials. And one thing that I'm really curious about, 'cause this is something that a lot of early stage entrepreneurs run into, is like where do they find their actual manufacturing partner?
So I'm curious like how you found that partner and is it still the partner you're using today?
[00:01:04] Kelli: Yeah, so in the beginning, you know the origin story. I was hunting in the back country and I hopped a barbed wire fence, and I tore my Patagonia Fitzroy on barbed wire, and I didn't like the way duct tape looked, so I had to make something cuter. And so I started to tinker around with all these different adhesives and. Fabric combos in my garage and started to kind of figure out what worked well with synthetic materials. And I was cutting these on my exacto board with my exacto knife for everyone in the tram line. So in the Jacksonville Mountain Resort tram line, they'd see I had a heart on my sleeve. It was a red heart made out of nylon, rip stop.
And everyone's like, I want one of those. Can I have one? And so I'd say, yeah, what shape do you want? I'll go home and cut it for you tonight and I'll bring it back tomorrow. Um, but as the business, well, I thought it was a business idea after I got all these requests in the tram line, and then I was like, let me reach out to my network.
See, who knows who can cut these. And my friend Jart, he has a packaging company on both coasts. He has a Rolodex bigger than anyone I know, and he gave me a list of 10 people that could do what I needed them to do. And yes, I've been using the same, um, partners since the beginning. So yep, eight years later, we have the same partners.
I love my vendors, I love my people. Um, yeah, and it's been awesome. We've grown together. We've had growing pains together, but um, yeah, it's been really fun.
[00:02:45] Christian: that's, that's impressive. You, so you were able to find the source in your. Which is a, that's a rare find. That's an unfair advantage that you, uh, that's great. I think unfair advantages are the best.
[00:02:55] Kelli: Well, I like, I love people and I like to talk a lot and bullshit and so, yeah. No, I like, like to make new friends, so I, I think if you have a lot of friends, uh, anything's possible. Right.
[00:03:09] Christian: Yeah. One thing we were chatting about before we hit record was, um, trade shows. And I first, I mentioned that I first saw, you know, so at Outdoor Retailer and um, it turns out it wasn't your first show, but maybe it was your second show that I saw you at and when I saw your booth and No, so we met briefly.
I was like, man, that is such a good idea. I can't believe it's taken some, why didn't somebody do this earlier? So first off, congrats on coming up with what seems to be, in retrospect, like such a, uh, obvious thing that you've done. You've done it very well and very different, differently, unique, but like, yeah, why didn't we just start putting patches on things like so smart?
But I do have a question about trade shows specifically. 'cause I have heard you say that . Trade shows are kind of like your secret sauce in some ways. Like you love to connect with people. You're very personable. How have you used trade shows to like Grow Noso is one, is one question, but the other one in it is like, how do you make the most of it?
Because I think it's something that a lot of early stage founders like, okay, I've gotta go to trade shows, I gotta get in front of people and dah, dah, dah. Then they go and it's like they're hitchhiking. They're just like sticking out their thumb, hoping for the best. So what are your secrets for prepping for the trade shows so that you get the most out of all that money you spend on it?
[00:04:20] Kelli: Right. So I mean, most trade shows are between 5, 10, 15, $20,000 a piece, right? So you have to look at that just out of the gate and say. How am I gonna maximize this? What am I gonna do? , to connect to as many people as I can. And I train and like I go to a lot of trade shows. In the first few years I was going to 18 plus trade shows a year.
I loved them. I could live on rim service. I literally love traveling and I love not having to clean up my room. So, , trade shows after the pandemic kind of changed a little bit, but in the beginning I looked at like, the list of people that were gonna be there. I had, um, a virtual assistant that was helping me with pre-book, so booking appointments.
And I also sometimes, um. dress up in character. So did, we did a lot of gorilla marketing. So we've dressed up as Dr. Noso. We've dressed up as elves saying Mary Patch, miss. Um, we've dressed up as repairs booping the whole trade show floor with our wands saying ad flare or repair. Um, so I use some theatrics, but I also was super intentional about what I was doing.
Um, we play some games, like my team now, when we go to a trade show, we try to set up our booth within less than an hour. We have a very small product and everyone sort of jealous of how I can fit my whole company in one suitcase. And yeah, it's pretty genius, but, uh, I will.
[00:05:53] Christian: that right there, that's enough for me. I'm like, oh man. I, that's why when I, that's why I had all that envy when I first saw you, man.
[00:06:00] Kelli: Yeah, we, we roll up and we set up and we, we time ourselves, we're like, okay, we're gonna set this thing up super fast and then while we're setting up, we're mingling. Like I am talking to everyone, I'm talking to the Freeman group, you know, guys that are helping me with my banner because sometimes they're like, Hey little lady, what do you need some help?
And I'm like, I always need help. I am always gonna need help. So we just make friends with everyone that's at the show and we just have a good time. So it's a trade show and I've always kind of lead into the show, part of the trade show. So, but yeah, we're really organized when we go in, I'll usually look at the list and say, I'm gonna target five key accounts.
And sometimes if someone comes to the booth, one of our older partners, you know, I'll ask them if they know anyone else at the show that they can send over and just kind of keep networking and asking for referrals and stuff like that. But.
[00:07:01] Christian: I quick question about the, you said you using a virtual assistant in early days, very smart. What did that look like? Can you just gimme some of the tactics around what, what you actually did with that virtual or what the virtual assistant did to like book you appointments?
[00:07:13] Kelli: Yeah, so usually before a show you get a list of all the buyers and media that are gonna be at the show, and she would take that list and import that into our MailChimp software. Or she would directly email some of these people and just be like, Hey, like we're gonna be at the show. Here's our booth number.
Love to, you know, love to meet you. Please stop by. Um, and then after the show I would get like a huge stack of business cards and then I would just scan them all in and she would just upload them all to MailChimp as well. And then do follow ups with our lookbook, our, um, electronic order form and kind of get orders after the show and help me kind of enter those into the, uh, system.
So.
[00:07:57] Christian: Was she doing them, as if she was you or was she doing them as, as if she was your assistant.
[00:08:02] Kelli: As if she was my assistant.
[00:08:04] Christian: Okay, so it was like transparent that it wasn't you.
[00:08:06] Kelli: Yeah. Her name was Kelly Brown. And so, and it was Kelly with an eye too, and I'm like, oh, perfect. Yeah. So Kelly Brown, Kelly Jones. Yeah. Um, yeah, she was great. Uh,
[00:08:18] Christian: yeah, it's just Kelly from Noso,
[00:08:19] Kelli: is Kelly from Noso.
[00:08:20] Christian: or assistant, whatever.
[00:08:22] Kelli: You can call me whatever you want.
[00:08:24] Christian: , so you mentioned that about like Covid. Do you think trade shows, uh, are going by the wayside or do you, are you still bullish on trade shows in the future?
[00:08:32] Kelli: It just depends on what show. I think some of them are very important for industry connection and just the future of the industry. Other ones, you know, I go to some of these regional shows. Um, I think the rep shows are really important. Those ones. I mean, my reps go to all these different regional shows and they're.
So important to the Noso brand. , but yeah, some of the larger shows where little Noso will get lost in, I don't know. I think there are different ways to do business nowadays and I've been to some virtual trade shows. They're not really where they need to be yet, but, , my product is a product that needs to be in front of people.
So when they have that aha moment is when they touch and feel it. So I see a lot of value in the trade shows, uh, that we go to. And again, I am like, I love trade shows and we are a human centered brand, um, by humans. So it's hard to just be, do online stuff. Like I honestly do not like Zoom. I do not like, um, yeah, I don't like all this digital stuff that we have, but it's a necessary evil.
You know,
[00:09:44] Christian: Okay. Yeah. Next, next, uh, podcast. We'll record in Jackson Hole, I
[00:09:47] Kelli: I would love you to come here instead.
[00:09:50] Christian: I would love myself to go there too.
[00:09:52] Kelli: Anytime.
[00:09:54] Christian: So you sell into both the outdoor, this is called strictly kind of the outdoor industry, but also hook and bullet or blasting cast as I like to call it.
I'm curious about, there's not a lot of brands that will sell into both successfully. Like they tend to pick their arena and stick to it. Um, I think that's kind of a, a missed opportunity because I think there's a huge overlap between these two, two markets essentially. What advice do you have to people who are selling into both?
Like, you kind of left the, not left the outdoor, but you were in outdoor and then you're like, oh, I'm gonna go over here to this hook and bullet, see these guys need my products too. How do you, how does that correlate over, like how do you take an outdoor brand and kind of transport it over into, um, hook and bullet?
[00:10:36] Kelli: Well, I think you have to align with your mission and your vision and your values, right? So at Noso we we're looking for people that rip it up. And it doesn't matter how you play outside, if you tear your gear, gear, you're a no so person. So we've always kind of like, we drive back to our mission, which is to reduce textile waste and keep items outta the landfill.
And we're just looking for people that are pretty hard on their gear. The other part is like, you know, with Nosa, we have so many different markets that we could tap into, right? We have the repair, we have the flair, we have the decorating, we have the customization. Um, with, with Nosa, we've always been like, Switzerland, know, if you're playing outside, if you're decorating at your kitchen table, you're us.
You're, you're a no so person. So we want you to be a part of our community, and we want you to help you with our, with our mission, which is to keep items in use for as long as possible.
[00:11:33] Christian: . Do you change your designs or do you bring a different assortment to, to those shows? Or do you kind of bring a different, um, not persona, but a different energy to the, to the trade show and to the products? Or is it, you know, is it just, is it No. So the same at both shows.
[00:11:48] Kelli: Noso is the same at both shows. We'll bring different products. So we'll bring a lot of our camouflage fish patterns to like a hook and bullet show. Um, the games will be different. I will do, like, I do pushup contest at shot show. I'll, I'll get like a Green Beret arranger, um, a Navy Seal, and I would be like, get down and give me 20 or like, so, um, you at either show I'm still horsing around, , whether it's in the outdoor specialty or hook and bullet.
But, um, yeah, the product, I mean, we can, we're able to convert anyone's fabric. So whatever the camouflage pattern, you know, we work with KU U, um, cry Precision, , mossy Oak real tree. So we have, , licensing. And we pay royalty payments to those two camouflage houses. But yeah, so we've got that part of the business going pretty strong.
And then we also have our art fix side, which are, you know, people like you that have beautiful designs that we just love. And I think art can change the world, right? So I've always thought using beautiful art to get people excited about repairs was the way to go.
[00:13:01] Christian: , outside of, no, like, just, just kind of in, in general for brands in general. . Do you think that there's a future where these two markets, um, verge together more? Or do you think they're always gonna kind of stay separated? It just seems, um, it just seems to me like, uh, the hunting is becoming more, um, acceptable I guess in the outdoor space.
Like it used to be like, oh, we don't deal with that. Like, it, it just didn't seem like, but do you see those two things? Am I trying to force something by ma making this assumption?
[00:13:30] Kelli: No, they're the exact same person. It's really funny how they think they're so different. Their political affiliation might be different. That's one thing. But these people are all recreating on public lands, and that's, I think, the common denominator. So if you look at the Boy Scouts, which are going to shot show or the climbers and skids that are going to outdoor retailer, they're literally, look, they're literally the same person, but they have a different political affiliation, which that shouldn't, you know, detract one another from working together for common goals.
So with us, the, our goal is to reduce textile waste. , I think both industries could work together to protect prep public lands. , I believe in the backpack tax, you know, I'm a hunter and a dirt biker and a boater, so I pay a lot of, you know, my little, um. You get these little tags, conservation stamp, you know, you have to pay all these fees to go play.
I believe that backpackers should pay a backpack tax because they get to go play for free. Um, and all that, all that tag money is what keeps public lands clean and safe and, you know, cool trail heads. Like all that work is done by hunters and anglers and dirt bikers. So, um,
[00:14:49] Christian: Yeah, that's something that a lot of people don't realize is that hunt and fish licenses go to conservation. A big portion of them e, even in the states ammunition, there's a portion of ammunition sales that goes to conservation. I.
[00:15:00] Kelli: exactly. And like, I think outdoor specialty, they'll say sustainability, but hunt and fish will say conservation. It's like you just have to know the lingo. It's the same exact thing but different. And if they could just figure out a word that was just non-biased, they could like really change. Of different things together and work together for a better future.
[00:15:26] Christian: for sure I'm, yeah, I think everybody should be thankful that you and Noso are there as the ambassadors for reconciliation. Uh, you're the Switzerland amongst us,
[00:15:34] Kelli: we we're, we're here to patch it up. No, I mean, it's, it's, it's metaphorical as well, right?
[00:15:41] Christian: but love it. Um, , speaking of the shot show, in a previous career, you were a therapist and I think from what I understand, you're kind of freelancing and using grants to kind of develop your own programs and get your own, um, things going. And you used a grant from Wyoming to. Attend your first shot show.
And so grants is something that we, um, have access to a lot here in British Columbia. So small businesses can really access these grants to kind of kickstart the business and kind of get going. Um, beyond that SHOT show grant, have you used other grants to help grow your business?
[00:16:13] Kelli: Yeah. So there was, so we had the. They have like economic development grants in the state of Wyoming. So the Wyoming, Wyoming Business Council has all these different, um, grants that you can apply for. We applied for a kickstart grant, which was a $50,000 grant during the pandemic. And we were successful. I pitched the state and one, uh, 50,000 grant, which we used to expand distribution and create stands, and I hired one or two people from that grant to, yeah, we grew during the pandemic.
We were growing up until 20 20, 80 3% year over year during the pandemic. We had some years that we grew, 283%. We really skyrocketed during the pandemic. Um, so that kickstart grant really helped us with shifting into shape, shaping like the scale at that time in the business.
[00:17:14] Christian: Okay, so this, I'm gonna jump to this question 'cause that leads into this question. You, so you bootstrapped it for a long time and then got this grant. Um, have you taken outside funding at all
[00:17:26] Kelli: No. So I, uh, have never take taken outside investment, which was really important to me. I, I'm an accountant in s some days I'm an accountant. Um, but I, in a,
[00:17:38] Christian: an accountant. I.
[00:17:39] Kelli: I was stu so I did accounting until February 22nd, 2022. I had an accounting practice going as well as noso, so I had two staffs. People don't realize that I was running two businesses for the first five years of Noso.
I know it sounds a little psycho, but I'm really good at what I do. Like, I'm really, I'm really good at accounting. I like love puzzles and it was just so easy. I worked with so many small businesses in Jackson. I had this clientele of like 17 clients, small business clients in Jackson that. When I launched Noso, they're like, you're not gonna leave me, are you?
And I was like, let's just see how noso goes. Right. And I will help you find the next accountant or CPA as I fade out of doing accounting. But no, I, I always use, uh, you know, my accounting revenue. If I needed to fund Noso, I just kind of did an intercompany transfer and, you know, boosted noso when it was, you know, had a slow month or something.
But with, with the cash and, yeah, I mean, I never took outside investment because, I mean, when I pitched people in 2014, no one understood what I was, what I was doing. Like I pitched rich. You're pitching very wealthy individuals and you're like, oh, look at this repair patch. And they're like, why would I buy a repair patch?
I can just buy a new jacket. You're like, oh. Like total. I get it. You're not gonna ever be my, you're not my demographic. And they couldn't wrap their head around the sustainability angle that I was talking about way back when. Now everyone's talking about it, reduce textile waste and keep items outta the landfill is on every single industry's website or brand's website in the industry.
So that's my line. Like I should have trademarked that line, right? But nobody was talking about that way back when. So there wasn't like an eco wave of consciousness that was happening. I'm part of that eco wave of consciousness. Noso is part of that eco wave of consciousness. And we just rode that wave until where we are today.
Um, and yeah, when in the beginning I realized that because these, you know, investors didn't get it, that nobody was gonna get it and it was gonna be a really long, uh, first five years, you know?.
[00:20:05] Christian: Did you think it was gonna take that long?
[00:20:07] Kelli: Mm, yeah, I did because every when I like, yes, it was super painful. I, I got so many no's, a lot of people didn't realize that I was the founder at trade shows.
They'd say, is it, it's your company. You came up with this, you and I just turn around and I, and they thought I was a sales chick or whatever, like a sales rep. I don't know what they thought. And I'd always turn around and I'd be like, well, I don't see anyone else standing here and like, you know, joke around with them a little bit.
But yeah, I had a lot of hairy eyeballs. I had a lot of people say I would never add that to my product because it would tell the industry that my brand's quality was inferior to every, everybody else in the industry. And I'm just like, oh my gosh.
[00:20:59] Christian: Yeah, barbed wire fences don't discriminate.
[00:21:01] Kelli: I know, and everyone was always like, my puffy, my puffy jacket would never tear.
And I would just look at them. I'm like, let me take your puffy jacket for like 10 minutes and I can tear it up for you. Like I'll just run past a rusty old nail or something. So there was a lot of, um, pushback and they started to call me a, oh, what do they call me? Oh, an industry disruptor. And I never liked that.
I was like, I'm an industry collaborator. Stop it. I'm a lover, not a hater. Let's work together. You know? So, um,
[00:21:41] Christian: You're just here to patch things up.
[00:21:42] Kelli: I'm just here to patch it up and have fun. Exactly.
[00:21:46] Christian: good. What was the process like? Or what was that moment like when you decided, I'm sure there was a lead up to it. But when you decided to say, okay, I'm leaving the beloved accounting firm behind and I'm going all in on Noso, like was there an, was there a annual revenue number that you needed to get to?
Like what did you need to feel comfortable with that decision? You needed to say F it. We're going.
[00:22:09] Kelli: Yeah, I needed, yeah, I, I mean, I, I take calculated risks, right? So, um, I had a widget model. I knew what I needed to, like, earn revenue wise to then say goodbye to my accounting practice. And so we hit that two years prior to 2022. So in 2020 we hit it. And when I made the decision to walk away, um, from my accounting practice, it was that I needed to show my team at Noso that I was a hundred percent committed, right?
[00:22:43] Christian: So why did it take you two extra years?
[00:22:46] Kelli: I don't know, I just, it's, it was hard 'cause I had like 17 clients and you have to get them through the tax season, and I'm such a loyal person and a few of my clients, I was, it was easy. Like I think I went from 17 to 10 in the first year, right? So in 2020 I was like, all right, I'm gonna just like get rid of the people that aren't, um, as responsive or they don't really need someone like me.
I'm look more upper level. Um, and they can get someone a little bit, you know, more affordable or use Upwork or, you know, try to find someone. Um, that wasn't me, I guess. I was just like trying to help them. Figure out the next steps. And then I just had like really good relationships with my clients that I didn't wanna let go of.
And yeah, a couple of them were things that I loved. I like, there's a few art galleries downtown Jackson and I love art. So I would go to all these part, I mean, there was other things that I was getting out of these relationships. There was like parties and, you know, champagne and chocolate, stuff like that.
Like I love going out. So I'm like, oh, if I like don't have this as like this person as a client, then I'm not gonna go to all these parties. So anyway, there was a lot of things that I was considering.
[00:24:06] Christian: Sure. Well, we all have our different
[00:24:08] Kelli: Yeah. No.
[00:24:10] Christian: , you have really good packaging, like the packaging of the No. So batches is, is really good. And, um. I, I, it's, it's well thought out. Right. And you're also kind of co-packing with other brands at times. I know that there's two kind of separate things, but I'm curious how, like, how, how that packaging has evolved.
And like you said earlier, NOSO needs to be in front of people. And so like the POP and that kind of story at retail. So this is kind of more for, at the retail level. It's like how do you think about brand packaging and POP as it pertains to noso and like how do you kind of get that quick story, um, in front of the, of the retail or in front of the consumer at retail?
[00:24:51] Kelli: Well, a couple of things like no so means no sewing. Right? That's one thing. And then with our POP and displays in store, there's always like a touch and feel component on the stand. The packaging has evolved over the years. We started with this teal like. Teal header card, and we've kind of evolved to the FSC certified craft paper, which, um, I have some packaging samples here, but Yeah.
You know, with all the different CoLab that we do, you know, we make a lot of private label patches for various companies that we'd rare, rarely talk about or do any marketing around. Um, but oftentimes we're working with a sustainability manager at said company, and they'll say, Hey, we need X, Y, Z, and we have, NOSO has like a long list of vendors that can, we can like, you know, we'll design the packaging and then we go and like, kind of job it out, get three quotes, see who, who can provide the recycled, you know, plastic, the FSE certified paper.
And if they can't, I. Do some of our, you know, req, like meet some of our requirements. Then we'll ask them, okay, what, what else do you have during the pandemic? That craft paper was really hard to source. And so I almost had to start hedging and like storing craft paper in a warehouse because we were, we needed so much of it.
Um, but everyone had this eco shift during the pandemic, and so we had to kind of shift to a paper like this. This was what we did for the North Face. It's a wood pulp acetate window, and this is just a biodegradable white paper. Um, super eco, 30% post-consumer, you know, waste has gone into this paper. But stuff like Burton, this is, um, our packaging for Burton Snowboards, it's FSE certified.
Um. Has a cool like little clasp on the back. Um, is
[00:27:01] Christian: If that's quality.
[00:27:02] Kelli: Yeah. This is so beautiful. And then it has the, uh, s hook, or is that the J hook? That's a J hook. Um, and then like, we've done fun things for like, y'all, Raven, there's this on a, a craft paper. Volcom similar, but you know, you have to kind of design to the brand's guidelines in which like, we work with so many different people.
We'll get their brand deck and, we'll pretty much, I have three designers on staff and we'll just design to whatever specifications that the customer is asking for.
[00:27:35] Christian: So you're, it brings up a good point about the kind of growth through partnerships. Like that's obviously not something you've always been doing. It's it, um, was it something you pursued? Did it happen, , serendipitously or did you go out and say. I need to get as many patches on jackets as I can. How are we gonna do this?
Let's go partner with brands. How did it happen to start?
[00:27:58] Kelli: Um, sometimes I'm pitching people, but most of the time because of my personality, people are coming to me. I have a, it's like a weird thing my whole life. Dogs love me, children love me. Um, I've got this like, uh, energy that people are drawn to, which is fun. If you're not an introvert. I'm an introvert, so it is a lot.
You're exchanging, I'm exchanging a lot of energy at shows. Like I'm taking on people's energy. I'm giving energy. Um, but oftentimes we're so different. We were so loud. We were so just like, I mean, we were like the fun girls at the show. I. People just come over and like, what are you guys doing?
Why are you so loud over here? What, what contest are you having? Or whatever, you know, we're just trying to make some noise and it's all about repair, so it's kind of fun. And usually we're doing activation, showing people how to use our patches. Um, but yeah, I think the mission, and thinking about a world without waste, I think people are kind of into that now.
So we're pretty much the only, only business doing this in, on the planet, I think. I mean, there might be some other people, but they're not
[00:29:12] Christian: They haven't made it on the radar
[00:29:13] Kelli: you know, they're not on the radar yet and they haven't taken it to the level that we are we're at. And like, good luck keeping up. 'cause I ca, I don't even know how I keep up with it and how my team comes, keeps up with it.
I have like an amazing team and it, we'll get an order and it's just like, bam process, boom, boom, boom, boom. Um, but
[00:29:29] Christian: Who is the first big brand partnership?
[00:29:31] Kelli: deuter is in Germany.
[00:29:33] Christian: Yeah. So they were the first ones to say we want no. So as our partner.
[00:29:37] Kelli: Martin was, Martin was the CEO of Deuter, and Becky Marciano was the marketing manager. I mean, I know like all these people that have worked with us, I personally know like, like Deuter, like, um, I went to Germany at a show, it's called iwa, which is like the hunting show of Europe. And Martin's like Kelly, you have to come up to where he was.
He's in Han Hamburg. And so I took a train up and I went to the Deuter hq and Martin like took off the day and we like had lunch and I dunno, he was awesome, but he has no, so on his cell phone, like he just puts it on his case. He's like, I love this product. It's the most innovative thing I've ever seen in the 30 years I've done this.
And I'm like. Cool. And Deuter is the first company in the world to do, you know, a backpack. And the tent, they did the tents during, um, the war. So it's like to have that stamp of approval from Deuter was like, Ooh, now we're on the map. And the second person was Dartmouth. So it was Dartmouth College. Yeah.
And I was like, Ooh. So yeah, those, those are our first two custom orders, but,
[00:30:53] Christian: And is it all now inbound or are you going out and finding, are you, are you hunting down these partnerships? Are they all coming to you by inbound now? Just 'cause you're a magnet for these people.
[00:31:02] Kelli: um, it's all inbound. Um, a lot of time. Yeah. It's, I, but I like to go to shows and so like, I, I can't tell you what we're working on right now, but Oh my gosh, I'm so excited. Um, there's one company that I targeted at the Grassroots Outdoor Alliance Show. And it's gonna be so fun. It's gonna be big, but I usually have to fall in love with something that the company is doing now for me to actually go hustle it.,
[00:31:32] Christian: , from the outsider's perspective, it looks like you have three channels. It looks like you have e-commerce, kind of your typical wholesale slash retail channel, and then this partnerships or white label or custom, whatever you wanna call that business. Can you share, you don't have to share numbers, but more like percentages of like what percentage of your business breaks into each of those channels, and then is there an ideal blend for you?
Like is there a goal you're kind of trying to get to?

[00:31:56] Kelli: So sure. The breakdown is 50% D two C, so that's all off our website. And then 25% is the custom, and then 25% is wholesale, which I like that spread. I would love to see it, you know, 33, 33, 33.
So you're, um, pretty even across the board. But right now, I mean, it's just, that's what it is. And we can grow all those channels for sure. And I, I'm looking at, you know, I. Our next growth trajectory and what that looks like, what market that is. You know, is that craft, is that sailing, is that dirt bike? Is that snowmobile?
Like where are we going next? Um, so, but yeah. Well, I, well, I really like, I really, really, really, really, if anyone's listening and has a contact at San Rio for Hello Kitty. I really need to work with Hello Kitty. Um, so licensing is kind of maybe one of the angles that I'm gonna lean into this year. I might go to the licensing expo down in Vegas.
Um, I think it's in May. So I've been kind of hunting people down on LinkedIn, but I really wanna work with San Rio and Hello Kitty because I wanna launch into the Japanese market next January and I will go to Japan to do that and ski some.
[00:33:14] Christian: Highly recommended.
[00:33:15] Kelli: Yeah.
[00:33:17] Christian: Good for you. And would that be in a similar style, like a similar style product in a similar market? Just the outdoor market of Japan.
[00:33:24] Kelli: Yeah. So, um, I would launch, we'll, we'll probably curate an entire line for the Japanese market, right? It'll be, we'll have definitely a Ucci who's our, you know, Japanese American snowboarder who, he's a designer for Volcom, so we'll kind of have his patches in the line, but I mean, we'll just kind of figure out if we can find other artists that might wanna work with us, um, in Japan maybe, and lean into that and see what that market likes.
[00:33:55] Christian: This is a bit off script, but would you want to work with a distributor in Japan or do you wanna distribute yourself in Japan?
[00:34:00] Kelli: Oh, I'm open to either, but I would like to go over there and then just kind of like go around to the different ski resorts and maybe meet some of the people myself too, just because I think that's fun.
[00:34:16] Christian: Are you familiar with Goggle? So I.
[00:34:17] Kelli: Yes, Josh is my, one of my really good friends. I.
[00:34:21] Christian: Okay. I was just in Jap. I do I I do know Josh. He's a fellow British colo. Well, I guess he's a transplant British Colombian like I am.
[00:34:29] Kelli: Yeah. He's awesome. He's helped me a little bit with my business. Yeah.
[00:34:33] Christian: I was gonna say, um, I was just in Japan Goggle, so is very big in Japan. And talking to Josh, it sounds like they have a killer distributor who's just going after it for them. So maybe there's something there for you to
[00:34:46] Kelli: Oh yeah.
[00:34:46] Christian: launch in January. Like I was shocked everywhere I went I was like, oh my God, there's Goggle Sock again.
Look at these guys. It's so cool.
[00:34:54] Kelli: Yeah, he's so awesome. I love him. I met him at a trade show. Such a good, yeah. Good company. Good guy.
[00:35:00] Christian: Yeah. Great. Yeah, Japan. Amazing. Okay, so is there one channel that you prefer from D two C wholesale or? The private label stuff, is there one that you prefer? Like, I don't wanna say it's like easy, but it's simpler and you're like, that is, that's good revenue. That's, that's easier to do. Is there, is there one that's easier or maybe the one that's harder?
[00:35:20] Kelli: I, I would say D two C is easiest 'cause you could just, you know, we do a lot of campaigns on social media and, um, the margin's higher, so that's always nice. What I love though is the colabs and I'm usually leading those. I love the partnership aspect of the brand. Nobody can do what I'm doing. I'm the magic there.
I mean, I've, I've never hired a marketing person at my company. I've never had a marketing. I don't, I like, and I have this new guy on the team, his name's Kip, and he's like, we really need to think about this marketing thing. And I'm like, well, if you wanna call it storytelling, we might be able to hire someone, but what I'm doing is not like. It doesn't fall into capitalism, right? Like we are anti-capitalism in some ways because we're stopping this mass production of all this petrochemical product, which is your puffy jacket made with nylon, rip stop and polyester and all these things. So he's like, yeah, but then if you market it, you're going to, you know, you're doing what you wanna do with the brand.
And I'm like, yes. But I like the authenticity that we've, I've brought to the company. Um, and I sort of want it to stay there, but as we keep getting bigger and bigger, it's harder to maintain that part of me in every collab. But I get jazzed up, um, when we get a new collaboration and I'm usually leading like the
[00:36:52] Christian: Have you ever had to use paid a, sorry? Have you ever had to use paid ads for your direct to consumer?
[00:36:57] Kelli: we, oh yeah. We use, yeah, we use, um, we do meta, right? We do the Facebook ads. Is that what you mean?
[00:37:05] Christian: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:37:05] Kelli: Oh yeah. We have a big marketing budget there.
[00:37:08] Christian: Okay.
[00:37:08] Kelli: So we use or digital ad spin.
[00:37:11] Christian: you are marketing
[00:37:12] Kelli: We are, yeah. What happened was like in, so we didn't do any marketing until 2020 when the pandemic hit. I took the entire trade show budget line and I moved that into digital ad spend because we couldn't go to shows.
And then once I realized how much easier it was to just do the digital ad spend, I was like, oh, so I don't have to go to 18 shows.
[00:37:32] Christian: I'm curious about, 'cause as we've alluded to, you are in Jackson and that is where you've, um, incubated and grown and Noso is becoming a larger company. Outdoor brands typically kind of launch where the, where the action is. Like, there's other ones that have launched in Jackson as well.
But there, there comes some challenges, uh, with running a successful business in a inexpensive mountain town like most mountain towns are. So what are the challenges you're running into specifically as you scale up and grow? Um, no. So in Jackson. And then how are you, what, what are the solutions you're implementing to be able to stay there?
[00:38:10] Kelli: So some of the things that we see in Jackson across the board with all the different companies. I mean, I've ran, I've like helped run so many different payrolls and, you know, kind of been on the front end of all this growth in Jackson. You know, the billionaires have kicked out the millionaires. It's the most expensive place to live in the lower 48 now.
And it's really, really hard. I, I honestly don't understand how the young people make it here anymore. They, they, like, I'm assuming most of 'em have family money because the rents are just insane. Um, but so like what we see is, you know, and this is nothing new. We live in a lifestyle town. Everyone wants a lifestyle.
So. People will be like, I need to go ski. I need to go walk my dog. I need to go to the river. I need to go to the mountain. I need to, my dog ate my homework. You know, you get like, like every day in your, like as a founder, none of this is unique, but they think that it's so, you know, your staff thinks it's so unique.
And so I try to work with people to a certain extent. But up very recently I had a couple of consultants come in and teach me like, hey, like if you're gonna scale this thing, you need to stop with the, all this flexibility. You need to get everyone moving from contractor to full-time employee. They need to work Monday through Friday, normal business hours, which is eight to five with a standard lunch break.
And you kind of have to be hardo about it. So I had to kind of think about, okay, to rebuild this team. 'cause I know some of these people are not gonna wanna do full time. Right. Um. I offered them all full-time last year, and if they didn't want that, um, I helped them outta the company and then I had to rebuild some of the team.
And I took the approach of hiring remote because it's a different, uh, talent pool as well as, um, I guess higher caliber of professional. So I have a few new, new people on the team and they're remote now, and it's working better than ever. But yeah, I think we still do a lot of, all the assembly in-house, the fulfillment in-house, the warehousing in house, so everything comes outta Jackson.
Some of that prototyping happens in Jackson. Um, I'm playing around the fabric when adhesives still on my work bench. Different people send us their fabric and I'm, you know, testing it in my washing machine at home, like with my little clipboard. How many times last. Sometimes I'll send it to the lab that we work with in North Carolina.
But yeah, so there's a lot of stuff still happening in Jackson, but I think as we continue to grow, will I keep it here? Not sure. Will I move it to Salt Lake? Will I move it to Lander? Uh, it's just getting harder and harder, um, to find people that are committed and they want to like show up nine to five.
[00:41:09] Christian: I guess the good news is that you could fit probably a lot of value of inventory in a small space, relatively speaking, compared to puffy jackets or skis.
[00:41:19] Kelli: yeah, no, I have, you know, Steve Sullivan, the founder of Steel?
[00:41:23] Christian: Yeah.
[00:41:23] Kelli: Yeah. He came in here one day and I have all of our inventory in a 12 by 10 room, and he's
[00:41:29] Christian: Oh my God.
[00:41:30] Kelli: he's like, I hate you. I hate you so much. He's like, you're, this is so smart. This business fits into a closet. And I'm like, yep, it's, I never thought of all these things while I was doing it, but there are some things that I did right.
[00:41:44] Christian: Another unfair advantage. It's so good. Good for
[00:41:48] Kelli: thank you. Yeah. No,
[00:41:49] Christian: And so the shifting from in-person to remote, how have you had to change from a management perspective? Like are, are you, are you having to change your work style because now there are people remotely like, or is there somebody else who's kind of managing the human resource side of it for you?
[00:42:06] Kelli: not yet. So I wanna get to the point where I can have someone manage the HR side of the business. I've had to shift my mindset a bit. I didn't ever think, and I, this is silly because is me and my perspective, and it might sound really stupid, but I didn't realize that people had to be managed. Like literally, I was like, I.
[00:42:31] Christian: I am, I'm only laughing because I, this is something that I come up against so much personally, I came up with against it. And then when I work with other founders, like, oh, let's just hire this person. Then you let 'em go. You're like, no, no, no, no, no, no. You have to hold their hand for a long time.
[00:42:44] Kelli: know I didn't. So I would just, I took the approach of like, okay, I hired them to do this job. They're gonna go do it because that's who I am. But then I'm realizing I'm a unique bird, right? Like, I was so successful with accounting and therapy because I like, I love, I'm awesome. Like, I love being awesome for people.
Like, I love being there for people. Um, so I had to learn, like when you hire someone, you have a position agreement, you have, you have the job description and you kind of like have this onboarding schedule and everything's like really dialed. Like there's no deviation. And we have, like with the remote, uh, hybrid team that we have, we have protocols.
I have a pro SOP for everything. I have videos now. Um, you can navigate our ecosystem and get up to speed in two weeks. We usually give people three to six months Right. To really feel the vibe of the business. Um, but now with the position agreements and job descriptions and setting that expectation upfront, like, this is what you're doing and this is why you're doing it, and this is how you're adding value to the company and we appreciate everything you're doing right.
Then I think there's bigger buy-in. But yeah. And then I always, I, I'm setting like deadlines, so that's another thing where I'm like, oh my gosh, it's a lot of time for someone like me who is a creator and who is a dreamer and a visionary to be like, okay, I gotta like now set deadlines for these people.
Sure, I can do that, but maybe just get your stuff done. So that's like something I struggle with. Um, and you'll, and I have this like how to work with Kelly document that I give every single person that comes to the company. It just like is. Four pager. I've had like my really good friends and my family read it and they're like, oh, that's you, that's you to a t.
And it just kind of lays out who I am and why I do the things I do, and how I do the things I do. Um, so they have like, no, like they know what they're getting into when they come into the company. So anyway. But yeah, I've, I'm learning a lot in the management side. I'm a, the thing is like a leader is not necessarily always able to pivot to a manager and I'm a leader, so,
[00:45:03] Christian: Is there a layer of management below you or did you have help with that management?
[00:45:08] Kelli: my org chart is pretty flat right now, and I'm starting to hire, like I have Josh actually help me with this from Goggle Sock. He helped me realize that I need to get a couple of other people under. Me just like two and then like have one layer under that. So then it just gives me a little bit of breathing room.
But yeah, I'm trying to get to have like one sales and sales director, and then one ops, you know, director or manager, whatever we're gonna call it. And then those two people will just report into me and then everyone else will be under them. So, yeah.
[00:45:46] Christian: helpful for sure.
[00:45:47] Kelli: Yeah.
[00:45:49] Christian: A little bit more than nuts, nuts and bolts. I'm always curious about how this works. How are you, is there something, are there tools that you're using? You know, now we're living in this digital, I know you don't love the digital tools, but sometimes they help. Are you using anything, um, from a tools perspective to project manage, kind of manage communications amongst everybody?
Is there something that's worked well for you?
[00:46:08] Kelli: Yes, we, we've used Slack. Like Slack is huge. And we use Asana for the bigger projects. And then we're also in the Dropbox. We we're on Dropbox. That's where we store all of our files. Uh, everything's in the clouds. Everybody has access to everything. And what else do we use? We,
[00:46:29] Christian: about It's not, sorry. Go ahead.
[00:46:30] Kelli: yeah. The, I don't know if you've heard of the book Traction.
I've used some of the, I don't like, I'm not like a die hard anything. Like I'm hard, like, I'm like a rebel, you know? So meat conforming to any system is pretty hard. But I've, like, they had these things called rocks and I've used the rocks, which they're really just quarterly goals. But I had my whole team, uh, last year read that book or two years ago, and we kind of like started to do really good agendas for meetings.
And so I took a couple of things from that book that was kind of fun, but.
[00:47:02] Christian: So it is, it is a good book and I, I recommend it, and it's, and it is, it is a toolbox. And so just like every toolbox in a garage, you don't have to use everything in there all the time. Just pull, take the ones out that work for you.
[00:47:12] Kelli: we only have seven people, so it's like, I can't like over manage this. Right. But also we need to hit our deadlines and different people. Like, you know, one of my designers, she like, loves Asana and you just put it in there and she gets like, it's like some people just need that little checklist that way.
But my brain is my checklist so that you just, I'm learning about all the different ways that people like deliver and execute. So, um, but yeah, it's kind of fun and I kind of lean into my therapy, you know, like people learn differently. They need to hear it, they need to see it, they need to write it, they need to do it.
So yeah, it's the
[00:47:48] Christian: Uh, the door cracked open, so I have to say it. Are you familiar with the Enneagram?
[00:47:52] Kelli: I am, yes.
[00:47:54] Christian: Okay. I'm only because I bring it up only 'cause you said realizing that there's different ways that people essentially execute and learn. And until I really started to understand the Enneagram, I was. Pretty ignorant on most of those things, and now I'm like, oh wow.
That's how you see the world and that's how you see your job Makes so much more sense now.
[00:48:13] Kelli: What number are you?
[00:48:15] Christian: a six just like everybody else.
[00:48:18] Kelli: All right. Is it,
[00:48:20] Christian: It's the most common. They broke my heart. When I saw that. I was like, what? I'm just like everybody else. Ugh.
[00:48:25] Kelli: wait, what is it?
[00:48:28] Christian: The six. What's the
[00:48:29] Kelli: Yeah, what's a
[00:48:30] Christian: The loyalist.
[00:48:31] Kelli: Oh,
[00:48:33] Christian: Yeah. So basically it means I scan the horizon and look for pitfalls in danger and then try to help people mitigate and help myself mitigate it so it, it serves people well.
It serves me well. It's good. I've, and that's a hard another. I've embraced it. Right. What, so you said you're a five.
[00:48:48] Kelli: I am a five. Yeah. I'm an investigator. I'm curious. I, I fix things. I, I bring, what does it say? I. I can concentrate and focus on developing complex ideas.
[00:49:02] Christian: Nice.
[00:49:02] Kelli: But I think it has like little patience. So
[00:49:06] Christian: It happens. And have you, have you, have you, um, explored it with your, I mean, I know it, I don't think technically you can ask your employees to take an Enneagram test, but have you ever explored it with the people you work with and kind of like backdoored it a little bit to see like, oh, okay, that's how you see the word?
Or is that something you haven't looked into
[00:49:22] Kelli: no, I've never done that with our team.
[00:49:24] Christian: Okay. I'm, I'm not saying you should. I'm just
[00:49:26] Kelli: No. The one thing I did recently on our company calls on, we have 'em on Mondays and Thursdays. I asked each of them. Who on the dream team they would, they identify with. And so it was kind of fun. Who was my Scotty Pippen? Who, who my Michael Jordan was, um, who my Charles Barkley was.
It was kind of fun 'cause everybody, a couple people didn't know who the dream team was, but we had
[00:49:51] Christian: I was gonna say that's really aging because people are like, though I wasn't even born, I.
[00:49:57] Kelli: two of them were like, wait, what? And I'm like, oh, you don't know. Like Dennis Rodman, come on. So it was sort of fun, but
[00:50:06] Christian: And who are you in the dream team?
[00:50:08] Kelli: Oh, who did they say I was, I was, um, I was magic. That's who I was.
[00:50:16] Christian: There you
[00:50:16] Kelli: I'm Magic Johnson. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:50:20] Christian: good. The playmaker
[00:50:22] Kelli: I'm the playmaker. Yeah. He always had the most fun.
[00:50:26] Christian: there you go. On and off the court.
[00:50:28] Kelli: And yeah. Yeah. No, and
[00:50:30] Christian: Um, okay. I'm, I'm really interested in how our previous careers, you've kind of alluded to the therapist. And the accountant. And I know that you've drawn from those experiences in your life and brought them into your life as an entrepreneur.
There's one job or one role I suppose that I haven't heard you speak much about that. I'm really curious how, what it is that you're taking from that. And in this conversation, I've seen a few things for sure. So I'm just going to mention this one role from your past and then let you riff on how you've brought that into, um, your life as an entrepreneur.
So in your role as Rocky, the Rocket at the University of Toledo,
[00:51:06] Kelli: Ooh,
[00:51:07] Christian: can you expand on what that is and what you've brought into your life from Rocky? The Rocket, I.
[00:51:12] Kelli: I like how you dug there. That is fun. Yes. So the theatrical side of me, when I was the mascot for the University of Toledo for a few years, man, I love to be the center of attention, but I don't like the attention on me. So I liked being behind the mask. Right. And. I think from that experience, I mean, I told my mom after I graduated college, I was like, I'm gonna be Edgar.
I'm gonna be one of the Baltimore Ravens, Ravens, I'm gonna be either Edgar Alan or Poe mom. And she's like, you are not going to be a professional mascot. I'm like, no, they're recruiting me. I'm going to be Edgar Alan Alpo. And at the time I was a lifeguard on the Ocean City Beach Patrol in Maryland. So I was like, I'm going to the tryout.
And she's like, we are, you are. This is not a conversation we're having. And I was like, all right. So I, I sort of let the professional mascot thing go, but I always loved having a good time. And I, like, if you look back at pictures of me growing up, I, I'm from a big Greek family, um, and in the, I'm always the one in the photo that's in the center holding everybody laughing really big.
Like my face is always like, ah, you know, or my mouth's open or I don't know. I'm always laughing. So I think. Being the mascot was that, but I didn't have to take every, all the energy on of being the center of attention. 'cause I just gave it. Right. I was like doing the grapevine, getting thrown up in lifts, you know, by the other cheerleaders.
Um, but I think in life people need cheerleaders and that's what I am for my company. Right. Like I am the biggest mascot for Noso.
[00:52:56] Christian: Very cool, and I
[00:52:59] Kelli: Well now I was just saying like all the dressing up at shows and stuff, it's so natural for us to just be like, okay, I mean, we have this new idea for this grassroots show in June and I'm like, I don't know if we're gonna do it, but it's like super weird.
Um, well I'll tell you this one. It's like I wanna dress up as like Inspector Gadget with a. With a cloak, like a, a duster jacket, you know, inspector Gadget. And then I wanna have all these samples on the inside of my jacket and be like, like for all the different brands, like on the inside, and we have this whole like, skit and dance move that we're working on.
But I'm like, are they gonna take us seriously? Like, I don't even know, but I wanna wow 'em, you know, like, I want 'em to get really into this like, eco, you know, I want them to eco aware of what we're doing. And sometimes people can just walk by without investigating what we're doing, and so we sort of have to be in their face about it.
But I don't know. Um,
[00:54:04] Christian: You've gotta make the most of
[00:54:05] Kelli: I do,
[00:54:06] Christian: you definitely make the most of it.
[00:54:08] Kelli: yeah. Our, our friends at Chums, there's, I don't know if you know Tom Ferris and Denny, um. They're always at the shows and they're like, they're usually like Kitty Corner, they're the guys that have the retainers, you know, for your sunglasses. And they're always like, you two, you three.
Like, what are you doing? But they always request to be next to us because we bring the
[00:54:32] Christian: You're bringing the traffic.
[00:54:34] Kelli: we bring the hype. Yeah. So,
[00:54:36] Christian: But if you, I, I'd also, if you're next, if you're too close to, no, so then the comparison is not good. 'cause it's like, ugh, you, you seem lackluster. You kinda wanna be in the zone, but not directly next to you. 'cause then when you compare side by side, the brand next to you must just look dull.
I like the idea of the being the cheerleader and the mascot. So thanks for, I, I listened to you on a, a podcast about Rocky the Rock. And I thought that was a really, uh, interesting insight. And it, it makes sense, right? Like it, it, the idea of having, creating all this energy, creating all this buzz, creating all this excitement and entertainment, but not necessarily having to identify and kind of take that home with you, like you can kind of do it.
Anonymously. And not that this is the same thing, but I think it's similar, that you've also been a pretty good cheerleader for other founders, and you've been a, you've been mentors to other founders and other outdoor , entrepreneurs. And I think if I have this right, is the Title IX Pitch Fest. You are somehow linked to that Title IX Pitch Fest.
Is that right?
[00:55:31] Kelli: Yeah, I actually pitched Missy Park on that idea. I, it was a 2018 trade show and she's, you know, at trade shows, sometimes people turn their badges around, so you can't tell who they are. So you have to just like, you know, really, you know, turn it on and. Jazz, like whatever. You really want them to turn that badge around, you know, you're like, come on, tell me who you are.
And so you're doing all your standup co comic, you know, I'm, I'm trying to like really get that badge turned around. , but anyway, by the third day she finally turns her badge around. She's been busy in the booth and she goes, turns the badge around. And she's like, my name's Missy Park. I'm the founder of Title ix.
And I was like, wait, what? And. I sort of fangirled her for a hot minute and then she's like, what do you need? And I was like, what do I need? I need other female founders on this trade show floor. I'm the only one. And everyone's always asking me like, why did you get so much press in the beginning? I'm like, 'cause I was literally the only female founder on that trade show floor.
Like nobody else was there. Yes, there was female designers and female CEOs and, um, I met some other like, uh, female product developers and stuff like that, but it was very like, male centric, male dominated or whatever they say. And so we stood out, like I stood out like a, like a flower that I am, you know, like this beautiful flower.
Um, but I was like, yeah, I want a community. I wanna build a community. I wanna build a community that I can just lean on and learn from. And. What if we do a pitch fest and she's like, Ooh. So over the next year we started to develop it. I met with Alice and Johnny and Molly from their team, and yeah, we kind of put together this thing.
It was real, uh, , raw. The first year it, I was, uh, one of the judges on the panel of judges and we kind of did our thing, but they had nine entrepreneurs for the next five years that I was involved in the program. So I was a judge on the panel of judges for the first three years. I did mentorship on the fourth year and fifth year, I think I said, no thank you.
I couldn't go back because I like to start things, you know, I'm like a new beginnings type of person and I got what I wanted out of it. I got all these female founders to unite, and so now I have, I can call on if you know any female founder in the industry. They're friends with me, right? Like I know all of them, and I can just shoot 'em a text and just be like, Hey, I'm dealing with this.
Can you help me? Have you ever dealt with this? So I have like, um, a good community of people that I can rely on, and then vice versa, they can call me for anything that they need as well. So I love that. And I think as a female founder, you know, you just, you're, it's, you're more powerful together. And I've always thought that like, um, what do we have that these bigger brands don't?
And it's each other, right? So
[00:58:38] Christian: That's
[00:58:39] Kelli: yeah, it's
[00:58:39] Christian: And , whether it's female or not. Early stage founders should be connecting with as many other early stage founders as possible to try to like, you know, the rising tide lift saw boat.
[00:58:50] Kelli: uh.
[00:58:50] Christian: it's, it's, it's good to have both. Um, but , what are some other things, specifically the outdoor industry you think, you think the outdoors industry could do to help support the female founders, like continue to help support female founders?
[00:59:01] Kelli: think there should be a tiered, uh, tiered trade show booth per square footage breakdown, because I think it's not fair that a huge corporation, a a hundred million dollars, a hundred, a $1 billion company is paying the same square footage as like a startup. I feel like, and it doesn't have to be female founded.
It could just be startup versus, you know, megacorp. That could be really helpful to have other people break into these expensive trade shows. I mean, my sales rep, uh, a couple of the shows I've like, I'm an, I'm an advocate for that. I, I'll always say, do you have any, you have any discounts for small business?
Do you have any discounts for startups? Like, I've always, I mean, but I'm an accountant, so I'm always like pushing for, um, equity in any way I can, whether it's in pay or you know, how whatever. But I like, yeah, I'm a bit of a, um. Instigate around some of that stuff. But yeah, I think they could do that. I think they, like a couple of the shows have a section where, uh, the, you're a first time exhibitor.
I think those are really awesome for people to get involved in out of the gate because you do get extra marketing, you get highlighted in special ways that if you're just kind of a general person on a huge trade show floor, you're gonna get lost in. But that new exhibitor section is really key and really important in some ways.
[01:00:24] Christian: And then what other ways? I mean, those are a couple ways I could think of, but yeah,
How do you wanna grow and change as an entrepreneur in the next five years?
[01:00:34] Kelli: I would love to be the visionary and like, I wanna be the founder. I wanna be like, able to not be in the weeds so much. I wanna empower my people to solve all their own problems. I wanna come up with more. Like, I have so many, I like, I'm an idea person, I have ideas for Black Diamond. I like, I, but I, but they're like, not, they're not patch related.
I, I play outside a lot, so I'm always looking at products from a perspective of like, how can I make this better? So I have like other ideas, but I can't do them 'cause Noso is so big now. But I'd like to just keep tinkering and I'd like to keep developing and, yeah. , I love the fin, I like love reconciling bank accounts and I still do that.
I know I'd like to just like do cashflow proj.
[01:01:24] Christian: a special type of crazy
[01:01:26] Kelli: a, I am a psycho. Like I am literally psycho. Yeah. Some of my, my team here, they're like, you're psycho. And I'm like, I know. Um, but yeah, so I'd like to just be able to do my cashflow projections and then go to trade shows and do r and d and development. I mean, that's kind of who I wanna be as the founder.
But in that I can, like, I, I can do every single job at my company because I've designed every single position. And so I, I need to like, start to say things like, and these, this is coming from consultants. Have you asked any other team member how to solve that problem? You know, like I lit, I have to like focus and not just help people so much, I need to like, make them help themselves or help them help themselves or something.
So, um, asking more of like the mirroring questions and not. Solving the problem so quickly and being like, we're done. Like, I have to give that time for others to evolve and grow in their own professional development. So I'd like to be that in the next year or two. So yeah, I'm hoping that one day I'll be able to just like be the one-eyed, raven and fly high and see what's coming next, you know?
Yeah.
[01:02:43] Christian: The question I always end with is, how do you define success for yourself?
[01:02:48] Kelli: Oh, that's, that changes all the time. When I was an accountant, it was if I could travel quarterly and twice a year annually, so I was, travel was a big thing in my past life. Uh, one of my, um, but now I think silly, like getting good sleep, um, and eating well and going for my exercises. That's success. . And , I love cooking and um, I like having time for my friends and my family, so that's like what success looks like for me. And if I get to ski all the pow days, that would also be pretty rad.
[01:03:27] Christian: It's your life. You can define success however you want. That's the beauty of being an entrepreneur.
[01:03:30] Kelli: Exactly. No, I've been ski, like yeah. The, uh, when I'm skiing like four or five days in a row, I'm like, yeah, this is it.
Like this is success because I am so happy. Yeah. I have arrived and no one's around. It's just like me on like, I'm like, yeah, I'm feeling this. Yeah.
[01:03:48] Christian: Good for you.
[01:03:48] Kelli: Yeah. Yeah.
[01:03:50] Christian: Well, thanks so much, Kelly. This has been wonderful to get to know you a little bit more. Where can people find you Noso? Where do you wanna send people? Any of the final words you wanna leave people with?
[01:03:58] Kelli: , I would say you could find us@nosopatches.com and at noso patches on Instagram, and you can find us at the next trade show we're gonna be attending, which is in Reno at the Grassroots Outdoor Lion Show. So yeah, stop by and say hi.
[01:04:16] Christian: = Thanks so much.
[01:04:17] Kelli: Thank you.